Heat sensor chopper myth?

Firstly I am new to growing, but think that the myth that infared heat sensors that people talk about on police choppers, can spot a farm from the sky being grown in an attick is a myth.

Firstly, I know someone who does maintanence on these devices. They are developed to spot hot objects that do not have cover. Anyone watched one of those police programs and noticed the trouble they have spotting people in a forest, let alone inside a building. I know they can still spot you in a forest but the trees make their work hard. Now compare a room temparature of 25c to the average 20c that most people have. Not a big difference and not big enough to make the average empty attick look that much different from the average farm. Even with the most basic insulation your attick probably would not look any different from any other.

This is all theory, so don't take my word for it. Someone I'd met got raided and claimed it was because his farm was spotted by a chopper at night chasing a stolen car. More likely he let everyone know he was growing and one jealous arse grassed him up.

Please don't take my advice without questioning it first, as I am not an expert, just thought I'd express the opinion that your best mate is more likely to grass you up than a chopper in the sky spotting your weed farm.

 

HID grow lights are HOT!!! Alot hotter than 98.6f (body temperature). I think an uncooled reflector hits about 400f. That's a pretty good target!

 

I think they just had a court ruling (in the US) its either that thermal imaging cannot be used as a basis for a warrant or you need a warrant to use it.

Based on that and like THC mentioned the lights are really hot it seems like thermal imagining works.

Thanks for the info though and you are right loose lips and rats are the biggest worry.

 

I'm onto finding ways to defeat the rude "Eye in the sky"!!! Anybody have any methods that really work?

 

By azezal: " - - - but I think that the myth that infared heat sensors that people talk about on police choppers, can spot a farm from the sky being grown in an attick is a myth."
Too many people believe the bullshit that they see in movies. The thermal imaging cameras can't see through roofs or walls to detect a growroom, they can only detect heat differences (hotspots) made in the roof or wall by the hot grow lamps. If (and that's a big if!) the heat is "effectively" neutralized; there is no thermal image!!!

"Anyone watched one of those police programs and noticed the trouble they have spotting people in a forest, let alone inside a building. I know they can still spot you in a forest but the trees make their work hard."
Keep in mind that you are talking about a moving person or a person who only stays stationary for a short time @ body temperature (98.6 f.) - not enough time or temperature to warm up thier surroundings. Now picture a stationary grow light putting out a lot of heat for 12 hrs. minimum (up to 24 hrs. continuous) - that is certainly enough to produce a hotspot if not "effectively" neutralized.

"Now compare a room temparature of 25c to the average 20c that most people have. Not a big difference and not big enough to make the average empty attick look that much different from the average farm.
Maybe not to you and me, but 20-25% is a huge temperature difference for a thermal imaging camera.

"Even with the most basic insulation your attick probably would not look any different from any other."
Yeah, proper insulation and heat signature elimination seems to be the answer. How much insulation and how much elimination still remains to be seen!!

"This is all theory, so don't take my word for it. Someone I'd met got raided and claimed it was because his farm was spotted by a chopper at night chasing a stolen car. More likely he let everyone know he was growing and one jealous arse grassed him up."
Yep!!! "Loose lips sink ships" is still probably the #1 cause of getting busted.

Please don't take my advice without questioning it first, as I am not an expert, just thought I'd express the opinion that your best mate is more likely to grass you up than a chopper in the sky spotting your weed farm.
I am doing research to help another guy that is planning a big grow. He just wants to eliminate even the smallest chance of being "seen". The problem is that it's hard to find good information. There are technical sites that explain how these systems work, but I haven't found any "how-to" articles about defeating them.

 

When the grow in your attic makes your house the only one on the block with no snow on it's roof, you'll reallize how easy a chopper can get a heat sig on your house.

 

They need a warrant to use it on your house in the U.S. The Supreme Court said that it is the same as a search. Since the paper work is the same the cops will most likely just kick down your door and have a look around.
It's been said, but bears repeating, that almost all busts are the work of sniches, so keep your mouth shut.

 

there is a lot of talk of attics....what about basements. Right now just flourescents but we haven't decided on what kind of light for flowering. Would a chopper be able to see through a two story house to the basement even for a high pressure sodium or metal halide lamp? any thoughts? I am going with no, but I don't fully understand the workings of thermal imaging

 

One more time! A thermal imaging camera doesn't see through anything. It only detects heat differences. For example; a wall heater might make a section of wall warmer than the surrounding wall area. So that section (where the heater is) will show up as a different color on the thermal imaging sceen. It doesn't see the heater, it just detects the heat!

If you're growing in the basement, the heat from your lights would have to heat up the whole house (both floors) before it got to the roof. Don't worry about it!

 

If i had a 250watt HPS in a cubbard inside a closet, with a fan and filter is this going to create a heat spot on the walls?

I wouldve thought that keeping fans on my cubbord will keep it cool enough.
Anyway England is fucking freezing so everyone on my street will have a fire or gas central heating on. Im sure a small grow could look just like a radiator on the TIC?

 

250hps isn't going to matter much on a FLIR check of the house... its not really very strong or hot.

 

I have been very worried about this in my planning for both a friend of mines cabinent grow, and my girls closet grow. A boy and his parents living directly behind my house got busted this way. They had a attic grow. To what extent i'm not sure, all i know is that none of them have real good jobs, but somebody got a new mercedes, convertible 2 seater joint, NICE. So i think they had more than a personal grow going on. Regardless my thoughts on this are as follows.
- Set it up in a regular spot, in a basement; a dryer, water heater, boiler, or other methods of heating your house is a very logical reason for having a heat spot. Think of making your grow cabs in the general shape of one of these appliances, or in the same area as them, to differ suspicion.

If thats not an option, my ideas on insulation
- Make your shit AIR-TIGHT. Glue all pieces together and caulk the joints. Run weather stripping(thin strips of foam with adhesive on one side) on the doors to make it as air tight as possible.
- Have the exhaust going somewhere it wouldn't be abnormal, out a bathroom, dryer or oven vent. Keep the exhaust strong too, the less heat building up inside, the less of a problem.
- Line the inside with 2 layers of mylar to reflect heat, maybe even a layer outside pointing up.
- Go to a home store, get some solid foam insulation, use as much as your space allows. Depots carry 2in thick insul. i plan on running two layers down the sides of the closet grow and maybe 3 layers on top. Glueing the pieces together and caulking the joints.
- Use extra wod, drywall, insulation or whatever to make more surface between the inside and outside of the box or room.

Im sure a lot of this is overkill, and with small grows heat may not even be an issue. BUT, im not taking any chances, i live in a well populated area, with a extreme drug center of a city a couple miles away, so i gotta be on my game.

These are all things i have thought on my own, i have no way of proving it or anyone seconding my thoughts. But in my mind, they all are logical ways of taking the heat off your house. One thing i know for sure, heat sensing in helicopters looking for grow rooms, is NOT a myth. It is a real tactic, and to the extent of the enforement and useage of this varies in every area. But where im from, we have a serious department, with a lot of man power, and a big budget. Out in montana or some shit, i doubt every county has a copter outfitted with state of the art equipment, but out here, for sure.

 

I was talking to some guys that worked for an independant chopper company. I managed to get the subject around to detecting weed with infrared. Now look, I'm good at reading people. When I asked him if they can really see a weed crop with infrared he did not hesitate at all and nodded his head and said "oh-yeah" then neither of his two co-workers looked like they were even thinking of disagreeing with him. I beleive they can see a weed crop with infrared.

 

I have heard people say that it is the actual marijuana plant itself giving off more heat than other plants in a field. Wtf man that is some pure bull.

 

Actually, its true to a point. I've done some research on the topic...

From how i understand it, its the resin glands that are the culprit in identifying your plant. They hold moisture differently than other plants, and its this difference in temperature from the moisture that makes them very visible on an infrared scope.

This is for outdoors of course.

Indoors, they are looking for out of place hot spots coming from your walls/roof.

 

if the cops are looking for grow lamps why are they aloud to be sold in stores. what about the people actually using the lights for normal plants

 

you're putting the cart before the horse.

FLIR aren't done unless LEO has a reason too. They need a warrant to do scans of household dwellings. Now, is it done sometimes just to "confirm a hunch" i don't doubt it.

In many states, cops have to have TWO successful trash pulls before they can get a warrant for a search (in person, not sure about FLIR).

Your grow cabinet is nothing to be worried about if you conceal the smell, light leaks. The heat from a grow cabinet is nothing.

Your bum neighbors ballin in a Benz and stuff is what got them busted, and chances are if they were that stupid to buy fancy cars w/ no job, chances are they had VERY poor concealment techniques for their COMMERCIAL grow op.

 

They use thermal imaging to do that, but the thing is they can do that or whatever and know you have mad plants but if there is no other evidence to bring you down then your fine. cops can't come in without a warrant rule #1 so don't let them! watch your electricity bill!!

 

thats exactly why just having lights is not enough evidence you could be growing anything from basil to fuckin san pedro

 

If you grow insode your house, nobody will know unless you let them know. The heat from a grow lamp also isn't anything to worry about - having some heat inside of your house is nothing incriminating. Also, while they do not look for heat inside of your house, the do fly around in planes with special detection equipment for OUTDOOR grows.

My dad once knew a cop and a few years back, there was a massive weed bust on a property next to mine... The plants were amazingly well concieled, and my pa asked the cop how they found it. The guy said that it is amazingly obvious from even a color photo and that they have a special glass or something that lets them see the color of weed or something like that... Personally, I think my dad might have just made the whole to keep me from growing some plants, but you never know...