hate is more economically safe than love

this is a really sad truth, which is the basis of our entire society. i know it's long, but please, read it.

first off, all cheaply made, expensive products we don't need are not made for our benefit. we're decieved into believing if we don't have them, we're not quite worthy of being called a real person. for example... if you don't wear socks, don't shave, don't wear makeup, don't dye your hair, don't shower every day, or use shampoo, shaving cream, conditioner, soap, body wash, perfume, hair gel, moisturizer, sunscreen, exfoliaters, nail polish, or any of the hundreds of grooming products out there, you're "gross". the less you wear, the more you need nair, because you're naturally ugly. maybe it's maybelline, because nobody looks good naturally. you can believe this, right? this isn't news. i bet you buy into it, just a little. most of us do.

you know that the government and society don't care about you. and you are a perfectly "normal" human being. for the most part, the posters here are average, intelligent, healthy humans. but what about those who are really different? what about those who have made some "mistakes" in their lives?

when a little kid pushes another kid off a swing, we don't think it's okay to want to brutally rip out the kid's organs and watch them bleed. we don't think it's acceptable to put them in a concrete box for years and years. we just want to help them understand that what they did was hurtful, and why hurting someone else won't help them. then if they do it a few more times, we'll try to help them, because we know they can learn.

why do we lose faith when we reach adulthood? why do we give up?

because it's cheaper, it's faster, it's the american way.

in childhood, we are cherished souls who are nurtured and loved despite anything we do. in adulthood, we are products, machines, and if we malfunction even once we're broken beyond repair in the eyes of the other robots. everyone fucks up once in a while. for most of us, it's little things, and we realize it almost immediately. but that doesn't mean a "big thing" is completely unforgiveable, and that the person who did it is beyond help.

there is a man (i can't remember his name, i read an interview in a magazine and i'll find it later and post his name here if you're interested) who visits prisons and talks to the prisoners. he doesn't treat them less than human. he helps them, he talks and really listens, teaches them to meditate, and guides them with coming to peace with their lives. they then become fully realized people who, if let into society, would never harm even a fly again in their lives. this doesn't mean they're let out of jail.

what is "justice"? we feel good when someone who has killed someone else is sent to the electric chair. why? it doesn't get back the lost life, and a whole lifetime of potential is thrown away without accomplishing a damn thing. we feel good about ourselves for hating those who hate. WHY? i really want to know, WHY DO WE DO THIS? but i already know. it's simple.

we're greedy, and pretending there is such a thing as a lost soul that can't be brought back is a way out of wasting our time and money trying to get it back.

if we cared we would talk to these people, share our love with them, let them know that nothing is so unforgiveable that nobody will love them. some wouldn't listen, but most would eventually see what they had done and want to do enough good to cancel it out. but that takes effort, and TIME, and time = money, and money = everything.

but wait a second... why do people commit these crimes, anyway? these unspeakable crimes which can never be forgiven? people steal, they kill, they rape, they torture, they conspire... why? because they're lacking something. why doesn't everyone get what they need? greed. and why is there greed? because there isn't enough love. if we loved unconditionally to begin with; if we didn't judge based on anything, didn't cache what we have like wolves, and shared what we had with people who needed it, why would crime exist?

the source of all these problems is failure to see the potential and humanity in every human being. we're all the same. but most of us think we're a step higher than the rest of the world. we think, nobody else is as deep or as smart or as enlightened or worthy as us, we just can't connect no matter how hard we try. so we give up trying. we isolate ourselves. we want it all for us, because the rest of the world is stupid anyway, isn't it?

but if you spend enough time with anyone, and really let your guard down, i mean REALLY be COMPLETELY honest, you'll find that you can connect. if you don't believe me, test it out. we're all humans, we all want to be happy, we all want to understand. every last one of us. so, like little children learning to share their toys, we need to learn to share life. when you take and take and take, you have nothing. when you give, you have everything.

maybe this sounds idealistic and unreachable. or you think, "it's nice in theory, but it doesn't work in real life". but i dare you... i double dog dare you ! test it out.

<3

 

I entirely agree with you. Money and especially greed is the problem of society. I wish we could live without money, but we can't.

 

I entirely agree with you. Money and especially greed is the problem of society. I wish we could live without money, but we can't.

Peace and love

 

Theres no therapist who's had near 100% success rehabilitating people.

If they claim otherwise, you've got a quack.

People commit crimes for many reasons, and many of these factors are largely sociological. That means our justice system should focus largely on rehabilitation.

But when someone becomes an adult, they are responcible for their actions, and approaching the root factors of crime is much more complex then a hug and a "how was your day?"

 

Its funny, we probably agree on lots politically, just differ drastically in how we think to acheive it

 

My politics have changed so drastically in the past 3 years that I'm starting to think I shouldn't vote anway.

 

. thats all there is to say

 

i agree completely. and if i had something to add, i would. but it looks like you've already said it all.

 

nothing is 100%.

if we had a society based on love instead of greed, there would be less of a chance of these people becoming mentally unstable. if they needed nothing, and had an abundance of acceptance and affection around them, why wouldn't they be content and happy? i'm not saying you're wrong. i agree the justice system should focus on rehabilitation, but they don't. and the "help" they do dole out isn't really help at all. it's a form of condescending therapy that tries to mold the person into one specific shape. so it's up to actual people, not government workers, to guide these people through their problems in an honest way.

i'm not saying "saving" people would be as easy as flashing some prisoner a peace sign and giving them a cookie. that's why we don't do it, because it would take an unbelievable amount of love. it would take the kind of love a mother (or father) has for their child.

richard feynman wrote in his book, "surely you're joking, mr. feynman!" about going to dances in college and dancing with a deaf girl. after one of them, he went with her to an entirely deaf dance, and said it was an amazing learning experience. most people i know would have ignored the deaf girl from the beginning (because her speech and the fact that she's different would make them uncomfortable), but he had absolutely no judgements against her. what if everyone could be entirely judgement free, and genuinely see every person as their equal?

 

Well I ceartainly think a reasonable society built on tolaerance, understanding and love is better then anything then the world has going for it now.

It's definatly something to strive for. Richard Feynman is an insightful brilliant man. Or at least the parts I can understand.

 

have you read the book i was referring to?

 

The curious charecter stuff? I have yet to read it, but I've heard really good things. It's also probably less intense then sitting through a quantum physics seminar.

 

i have that one, and i have a set of three books of lectures. i'm reading the first one and the other book at the same time, i love them both.

 

People have too many problems with hate.


Hate can be a real powerful force, an insperation for change.

If you dont hate things, your desire to improve 'em is far too small

 

would you say i have a smaller desire to change things, because i love and don't hate? i'd say i have more drive to do things the hard way, and not take hate as an easy way out.

hate "accomplishes" things, for a while. but it never makes anything that lasts. you hate someone who's kicking their dog? punch him in the face. call him a fucking moron. tomorrow he'll do it again, probably right where you can see, and harder, just to get back at you. you love the dog who's getting kicked, but you also love the owner? stop what's happening now by seperating the dog from the owner, and then talk to the owner to prevent it from happening again. explain why it's not right to hurt another living being, and not only is it not right, it's not legal. first, try to change his attitude. remind him if he doesn't make the change himself, you'll have the dog taken from him for good. that immediate action halts the problem itself, but just stopping what's happening NOW doesn't fix anything. then you have to work with him to the source of the problem; the anger in his life. he'll be angry for a while. maybe even angrier than if you had punched him in the face the first time. people are always irritated when they hear the truth and it doesn't go along with what they've been doing, because they recognize it as true and know they'll have to go through the hard process of undoing their habits. which is different than justifying shoving your beliefs down someone's throat, proclaiming it as truth. if humanity can agree on one thing, it's that unneccesary pain is unpleasant and without it we'll be happier. once he sees that you really care about him, he'll change.

imagine you burned your arm somehow. it's been a few days, and you're in a lot of pain. hate ignores the pain, throws a bandage over it, considers it taken care of. maybe the pain goes away for a while, but then it gets infected and is ten times worse. love knows what it has to do to fix it for good. it scrubs out the burn, taking all of the pain at once because it knows it will feel better once it's really taken care of. the pain is excruciating, for a while, but in a few days the burn is beginning to heal.

you always end up at love, somehow. because even if you put the bandage on and let your burn get infected, that's not the end of it. you can't just say, "oh, i'll just live with the infection", obviously, because it will only get worse. you HAVE TO treat it lovingly and really understand it, eventually. but the longer you wait, the harder it will be to repair.

these are of course analogies for much bigger problems, but they're still examples of the everyday contrast between living with hate and living with love.



this is turning into an ongoing debate with you, and as long as you don't mind, i don't mind . i hope i'm not being too repetitive and stubborn.

 

what your trying to describe is utopia. Good luck.

Human nature will never concede to that belief system. I used to be naieve and even more idealistic than I am now, however I found out the hard way that love and peace are not a complete solution, human beings simply will not allow it, and some people are just plain bad, crazy, whatever, they cannot be changed, and those are the people that will take advantage. Love and peace are always the BEST answer, however sometimes you cannot use that route, and you must acquire the wisdom to know when love and peace are futile. I'm not suggesting battles or Wars, however some individual people are just dangerous to the rest of us, and have to be handled accordingly, without haste. I agree that hate is more economically safe and simpler than love and understanding, and I agree that the general perception of what a human bieng is has been over marketed to an unattainable farce.

To sum it up, I agree with most everything you said, however complete and total love and understanding for all humans, in all situations is utopia, and unfortunately the human condition, greedy and vindictive as it is, will never allow this, and in the end, those that gave the most love and understanding, lose the most.

 

i'm not saying it's easy, or it happens in one day, or you don't have to deal with him being angry for a while. maybe that's what will happen at first (him punching you in the nose and kicking his dog again). but if you stick with it, everyone almost always ends up a happier and more complete person.


just an example: i heard about some girl who wanted to "kick my ass". i guess i had said something and it made her angry... i don't know what her problem was. but she wanted to beat me up. so i walked around all day in a little ball of uptight energy, trying to figure out what i was going to do. before i heard about her hating me, i liked this girl, and i still did. at the end of the day, i said, "i'm gonna go deal with this". all of my friends were yelling, "YEAH! PUNCH HER FACE IN!" and stuff like that. they were angry that someone would want to hurt me. so i walked up to her, hugged her, kissed her on the cheek, told her i loved her (which i meant), and walked into a cheering crowd. the next day, she apolagized and said that i made her feel like an asshole.


it doesn't happen like that every time. but it does most of the time. most people have a conscience, and if you plant guilt in them, it will grow until they change themselves. i'm not saying guilt trip people. i'm saying showing someone love when they're being aggresive and are ready to fight surprises them. it makes them retrace their steps and think about why they do things the way they do. if you're genuine, and not condescending, people can tell. if you come in with a holier than thou attitude, people aren't going to listen.

 

i don't expect everyone to be filled with love all the time. i just want more of us to try a little harder. i'm not going to go to a city and confront someone with a gun, and try then and there to change their entire perspective on life. i have complete and total love and understanding for all humans, in almost all situations (i haven't experienced enough different situations yet to say i can handle them all, and i don't think that i can, but i'll try). i'm not trying to be jesus or stop wars or change the whole world. i just know that in my life, i'm going to meet a lot of people. some of them will be greedy and hurtful, and i'll try my hardest to show them as much love and kindness as i can. i don't think that's overwhelmingly impossible. and i think if i can tell some other people here how to make that work, they can do the same (maybe just once, in a particularly hard situation, it can help them out). i'm not talking about creating a place. i'm not living in some fantasy. i'm talking about our everyday actions not being in line with the actions of our society. let their bullshit and lies carry on independently of us. let America keep throwing confused and hurt people into concrete and metal boxes and letting them rot, but try to prevent it happening to other people. i don't want to re-do and re-create society, i just don't want everyone to depend on it to take all the moral action in every situation.

 

Yeah i know what you're saying,i was just playing with you a bit.That's the excitement of youth.If you believe, you can make it happen.As you become older you become skeptical and start losing this power.Eventually the change will come.