Has the 3rd amendment of the US constitution ever been violated?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fueled by Coffee, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Amendment #3: No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    Prior to US independence, this military occupation of private property occured often. That's why they even made this an amendment.

    I bring this up because all of the other 9 original amendments of the Bill of Rights keep getting violated again and again, time after time.
     
  2. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    This has basically been violated.

    Plus, obama practically repealed the Magna Carta so this Amendment doesn't mean anything. And he declared "martial law" in parts of NY and NJ following hurricane sandy..
     
  3. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    That's not at all an overstatement.

    What's unusual about declaring martial law in states of major emergency? Environmental devastation? Looting and the breakdown of society?
     
  4. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    it's not at all an overstatement because Obama has executed American citizens for "suspicion of terrorism." and that's only 1 example and there are MANY more...

    Using the military to police the populace directly violates posse comitatus. (and the fore-mentioned Magna Carta of Brittian.


    With you last post, I'm guessing you support Obama...

    So unfortunately, it'd be nearly impossible to change your mind..

    But I will tell you why I feel this way; Using force to impose your will on others is never morally justifiable. Obama supporters of today sound just like Bushes old supporters "If you don't like it here.. LEAVE" but this country used to recognize the Constitution as Human Rights that came from God not Government; and any government who tried to take them was morally wrong.

    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
    Abraham Lincoln
     
  5. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Hmm I never consodered Hurricane Sandy as an example, but I suppose you're right somewhat. I know that one of the main reasons this is even an amendment was because British soldiers would show up at people's front doors, let themselves in, take what they wanted, slept where the wanted, and would stay there for an indefinite amount of time. And this was all perfectly legal at the time.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    The Magna Carta is an English document of which only three clauses out of sixty some are still in effect. It is not a document of the United States so how can Obama repeal it?

    Please cite an example of a soldier being quartered in a civilian house without consent in a time of peace or unlawfully during a time of war. Especially in modern times (after the Civil war).

    For Martial Law to be declared the civil courts must be nullified. That is not the same as sending in Federal or State troops to restore or maintain order. I don't know of any suspension of habeas corpus during hurricane Sandy.

    Obama and the Governors of Maryland, New York, Virginia, Washington DC and Pennsylvania declared a State of Emergency, not Martial Law, which is different.

    And by the way, Martial Law has been declared a number of times in the past history of the U.S., and we are still here; as have States of Emergency.
     
  7. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    What American citizen has been executed by Obama for "suspicion of terrorism" ?
     
  8. odonII

    odonII O

    From what I can gather a news reporter on 6 Action News mentioned that a particular area was under 'martial law'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owLT1XK6YqU"]Martial Law Declared In Parts of NJ - Hurricane Sandy Fuel Shortage - YouTube

    I can't find any other mention of it anywhere.
    If StpLSD25 can post an alternative report where it is said, I'd really like to read it.
    However, previously, he has based an argument on one very flimsy report that was just regurgitated all over the Internet.
    If Obama declared "martial law" in parts of NY and NJ following hurricane sandy, don't you think it would be more heavily documented than some random lady reporting it on a windswept afternoon?

    It is more likely a 'state of emergency' was declared, and that is widely documented: 'state of emergency'

    Isn't America technically still under 'Martial law' after Abraham Lincoln declared it in 1861? Or is that a myth?

    I think the National Guard/Coast Guards and Marines were used during Hurricane Sandy - and I think they are except during 'martial law', or because they are under the authority of 'homeland security' are except.
    I'm not sure.
    http://publicintelligence.net/hurricane-sandy-assistance-photos/



    NoxiousGas


    StpLSD25 will probably point to this:

    In his letter to Congressional leaders, Mr. Holder confirmed that the administration had deliberately killed Anwar al-Awlaki, a radical Muslim cleric who died in a drone strike in September 2011 in Yemen. Mr. Holder also wrote that United States forces had killed three other Americans who “were not specifically targeted.”

    The American involvement in Mr. Awlaki’s death has been widely reported, but the administration until now had refused to confirm it. Likewise, Mr. Holder confirmed the government’s role in the deaths of Samir Khan, who was killed in the same strike, and Mr. Awlaki’s son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, who died in another strike. The letter disclosed the death of a fourth American named Jude Kenan Mohammad but gave no further details.

    Mr. Holder defended the actions, saying they were consistent with American law and taken only after careful consideration. “Based on generations-old legal principles and Supreme Court decisions handed down during World War II, as well as during the current conflict, it is clear and logical that United States citizenship alone does not make such individuals immune from being targeted,” he wrote.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/u...ans-in-drone-strikes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Probably not to that particular article, but that particular set of people.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    The "Liberal Media" with its "Liberal" bias got it wrong in some cases.
    A State of Emergency was declared, not Martial Law:
     
  10. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    Where have you been? Anwar Al awlaki and his 16 year old son!!
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    In regards to Lincoln:
     
  12. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    Being from NY (and most of my friends/family living there) I went off what they told me.

    They said there was NO looting, but military troops and vehicles enforcing a curfew on adult citizens.


    Using military to police the populace does violate the Magna Carta (and the American equivilant the posse comitatus
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    States of Emergency are routinely called during emergency situations. The military is used to keep order, prevent looting, police the highways and streets to keep them open for emergency vehicles, control vital supplies and services, aid in search and rescue, etc. when it is deemed by the Feds, city, or State governments that the normal civil authorities may be overwhelmed.

    The Magna Carta does not apply to the U.S., therefore the U.S. president can not violate the Magna Carta.

    During the first oil crisis in 1973, I helped my uncle at his gas station, he armed himself for protection and the National Guard escorted convoys of tankers on their way to deliver fuel. Military helicopters flew overhead the convoys for protection. We welcomed their help as things got ugly at times.
     
  14. odonII

    odonII O

    Here is the proclamation that President Lincoln signed:

    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A PROCLAMATION
    Whereas, it has become necessary to call into service not only
    volunteers but also portions of the militia of the States by draft in
    order to suppress the insurrection existing in the United States, and
    disloyal persons are not adequately restrained by the ordinary processes
    of law from hindering this measure and from giving aid and comfort in
    various ways to the insurrection;
    Now, therefore, be it ordered, first, that during the existing
    insurrection and as a necessary measure for suppressing the same, all
    Rebels and Insurgents, their aiders and abettors within the United
    States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting
    militia drafts, or guilty of any disloyal practice, affording aid and
    comfort to Rebels against the authority of United States, shall be
    subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by Courts
    Martial or Military Commission:
    Second. That the Writ of Habeas Corpus is suspended in respect to all
    persons arrested, or who are now, or hereafter during the rebellion
    shall be, imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or
    other place of confinement by any military authority of by the sentence
    of any Court Martial or Military Commission.

    In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
    Done at the City of Washington this twenty fourth day of September, in
    the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, and of
    the Independence of the United States the 87th.
    ABRAHAM LINCOLN
    By the President:

    WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.

    Source

    This order differs from other orders that President Lincoln signed in that there is no end date or expiration proclamation found within. From everything I can find, there was never any proclamation that lifted martial law.

    http://my.firedoglake.com/kristenh/2012/03/23/martial-law-in-the-united-states/

    It's probably the case it isn't actually true, but might be technically true - if that makes sense.
     
  15. odonII

    odonII O


    But you said: 'And he (Obama) declared "martial law" in parts of NY and NJ following hurricane sandy...'
    Not: ' I went off what they (friends and family) told me.'

    Don't you think there is a big difference?
     
  16. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    I'm talking about the posse comitatus act, which says that the military can't be used to police the populace. Obama also constantly violates the Constitution with the laws he's passing. This means they should be null and void (The supreme court ruled way back, that if a law violates the Constitution, it's null.)

    This type of lawless, no-holds-barred government, is exactly what the elites want to cause chaos and radicalization; The next steps would be Big Brother "stepping in" to "help." But in reality, the government doesn't really help. Maybe it wasnt so bad seeing the NG in 1972, but if that was today, they'd beat the shit out of your dad and take his gun, then the Army/NG/ Police have been known to rape women and take advantage of bad situations.

    I think the government has become an enemy of freedom, more and more as time passes. Yet still, they've managed to brainwash people, that they "help," and not "hurt." When in reality, the government causes more problems than they fix.

    and quite evidently, you're one of those people who whole-heartedly believe that the government want to help; But sadly, this has never been the case. We were meant to be a "free country," but that dream turned to "money" for the politicians and "Control" for the world bankers.
     
  17. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    Not at all. I've seen several reports also, that said that Martial Law was declared. They're not hard to find, I even posted a topic here on HF. (Seems like people never see what they don't want to see.)

    But I'm saying also, that using the military to police the populace, is a violation of the posse comitatus act, and is one more thing in a long list of abuses of power portrayed by our Government!

    They do not follow their own laws, therefore they are illegitimate! I don't need to sit here and argue this out with you guys. Facts are Facts, as Opinions are opinions. Martial Law and a Curfew was enacted in NY and NJ, that's fact.

    This is one small thing, in a long line of abuses and contradictions from our government; that's also true.

    This is an overreach of government power- That's just my opinion.

    But I'm really not surprised. We always disagree, because you OdonII blindly follow the government. Understand that we dont want to be like England or the EU; We want freedom, and the founding principles of our country.
     
  18. odonII

    odonII O

    Lawful Military Support To Civil Authorities In Times of Crisis

    JURIST Guest Columnist Kevin Govern of the Ave Maria School of Law reveals the history behind recent changes to law and policy which will affect the involvement of military forces with civilian domestic law enforcement...

    http://info.publicintelligence.net/DoD-CivilianLawEnforcement.pdf

    http://jurist.org/forum/2013/05/kevin-govern-posse-comitatus.php

    Are you the type of person that thinks: 'Well it doesn't mention any of that on this dusty old peice of paper...so...'
     
  19. odonII

    odonII O

    I have read this type of thing (here and elsewhere):

    After 24 people were arrested last night on charges of breaking into stores, Jersey City has imposed a city-wide curfew on pedestrians and all businesses overnight, officials said today.

    "We have to provide for the welfare and safety of all our residents" during the recovery from Hurricane Sandy, Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy said. "This limitation will assist us in achieving this goal."


    Some drunk guy on the Youtube:

    https://www.youtube.com/v/FbAHQHdljyg

    http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=460697&highlight=martial+law&f=36

    StpLSD25: To be honest, I've not read any decent articles where it talks about places such as New Jersey being under 'Martial Law'.
    I've read about road blocks, curefews and the national guard helping with distributing supplies and manning road blocks (not even storm-chasers would crash through).

    http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=7446570&postcount=19

    I'm going off of this video with the martial law thing.

    http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=7446579&postcount=20

    (the video I posted earlier)

    If they are not so hard to find maybe you could post these articles again...


    (I have a terrible memory - thankfully the HipForums doesn't)
     
  20. odonII

    odonII O

    I don't think we would disagree if you based your facts on facts not opinions (of your friends and family) and some random news report. I tend to question the authenticity of what you are saying, and I'm hardly ever satisfied with what it ends up being based on. Sorry.

    I totally understand you don't want your country to be like the EU (all 28 member states) or the UK (more than England).
    However, I imagine it is more the same than it is different.

    I wouldn't like the UK to be like the U.S :) - well, maybe I'd take some of your weather (not the hurricanes).
     

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