happy Eoster Not Easter

Discussion in 'Paganism' started by Gone and forgotten, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Celtic goddess of spring, known as Ostara in the Germanic tradition and Frigga in Norse mythology, Persephone and Eos in Greek mythology, was celebrated at this time for all of the riches she brought: Light, growth, green, fertility, abundance, renewal, the chance to start again.

    Fake Christians stole this holiday and named it Easter.
     
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  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Speaking of fake, what little we know of Eostre (Ostara) is sketchy, resting mostly on mention of her by the medieval cleric-historian the Venerable Bede and the research on English place names by Philip Shaw. Nothing about a spring festival in her honor. If there was such a festival I don't think pagans had a copyright back then, so "stolen" is a misuse of language. Christmas and Easter are never complete without some fundamentalist Christian, pagan or atheist telling us that they're really pagan holidays. Christians, of course, are celebrating the resurrection of Jesus and the hope that it gives to humanity. Besides, "Easter" is just the Anglo-Saxon word for it. Other European countries use some variant of Paschal which comes from the Hebrew for Passover, a good Jewish holiday. Christians were celebrating Easter for several centuries before they encountered any Eostre worshipers in northern Europe.

    Easter is calculated with reference to the full moon and the vernal equinox and the Jewish Passover (the first Sunday following the full paschal moon that falls on or after the vernal equinox). Emphasizing the pagan connection shouldn't blind us to the Jewish one. Paul, in particular, stressed the analogy between Jesus and the Paschal lamb which was sacrificed at Passover. John mentions that Jesus was crucified on “the day of Preparation” (John 19:31), that is, the Friday before the Sabbath of Passover week (Mark 15:42). In the Pharisaic-rabbinic calendar commonly used in Jesus’s day, Passover fell on the fifteenth day of Nisan (Exodus 12:6), which begins Thursday after sundown and ends Friday at sundown. Whether or not the Jews were influenced by Babylonian astrology in designating Passover is a question for scholars to debate. In the second century, Christians disputed whether to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus in line with the Jewish Passover or only on a Sunday, since Jesus is said to have risen on that day. Pope Sixtus picked Sunday, and the Council of Nicaea in the fourth century went with that.

    I don't think it's accidental though that a holiday with astral significance became adapted to the Christian religion. At an archetypal level, I suspect that the seasons had a grip on Christian as well as pagan festivities. Spring, the vernal equinox, is the time of nature's renewal--powerfully significant symbolically for humans. Many skeptics still buy the late Sir James Fraser's thesis in The Golden Bough that Jesus was a mythical figure borrowed from pagan fertility cults. Fraser's reputation hasn't stood the test of time, and scholars today tend to stress the Jewish roots. I suspect both were involved, as Christianity moved from being a Jewish sect to a predominantly pagan one. I've always found it curious that Eostre sounds so similar to Ishtar (Babylonian) or Astarte (Syrian) , the sex-fertility goddess, derived herself from the Sumerian goddess Inanna. Coincidence? Getting a Middle Eastern goddess to Northern Europe would have been a feat, but those Phoenician Astarte worshipers were active seafarers and merchants.There is speculation that Phoenicians traded with the British and the Germans along their shorelines in the eleventh century B.C.E..
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  3. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    That's one of my better Freudians. I meant to say "Gentile", not "pagan".
     
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  4. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    Nobody is preventing you from celebrating Easter whatever way you want or not at all.
     
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  5. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    What makes you say these christians were fake christians, @Rahab ?
     
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  6. rollingalong

    rollingalong Banned

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    was it those same fake Christians who also invented a fake 'treat delivering rabbit'?....because that one is a win....everyone loves chocolate...even pagans
     
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  7. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    The rabbits was a sign of fertility to the Germanic people, they viewed it as an animal best known for sex lol. The love heart, is also a representation of buttox, not your heart.

    We're all about the sex in neo paganism. :p
     
  8. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    But also for the christianized pagan germans in early medieval times? If you would say so, I would ask in seriousness how do you know? I could ask the same about the rabbit being seen as an important fertility sign (same with an egg) among germanic tribes. Yes, its likely, but is the assertion based on more than connecting dots?
     
  9. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    You could just... Research it on your own and come to the same conclusions. :) there's nothing original about Easter, or it's connotations in today's world. Back then we just painted eggs to look pretty without the chocolate.
     
  10. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    I first learned about the rabbit and the love heart a long time ago when I was researching symbology and cultural meanings behind symbols and runes.

    Also drawing bunny ears was a sign of fertility in the rabbit, I'm also assuming the saying "fuck like rabbits" might even be just as old. But yes a rabbit or hare was common symbol for fertility, given Ostara was the goddess of rebirth and fertility, it makes most sense for her and rabbit symbols and even eggs to be present at her solstice. :)
     
  11. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    I did look into it once but can't remember everything I looked into.
    I do remember though that a lot is uncertain about early mid european germanic paganism. There's more known with certainty about early south european pagans from centuries before AD than mid or north european pagans, and those pagan beliefs and customs already differ from eachother (hence we cannot assume early germanic pagans had the same as lets say etruskans).

    This is also why the term neopagans seems more appropriate in regards to modern german pagans. As there's often no direct link to the customs and beliefs of the early ones that essentially died out in the dark ages.
     
  12. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    One thing I do recall is that what Okiefreak wrote about Ostara is true. She is literally a myth. It's unsure the ancient germanic pagans had a goddess called Ostara or Eostre or something similar.
     
  13. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Hmm I'm not sure what's uncertain about Germanic cultures? It's not like they were encrypted, and we have the Norse who took with them, much of their culture too so probably just need to look at them.

    Connecting the dots is essential. One must look at the whole spectrum of information rather than just a given topic. Say, an egyotologist might be really good at Egyptian mythology, but they're known to not be able to connect the dots with the cultures around them, only knowing Egyptian, only stating from an egyotian point of view.

    When I think of the Germanic people I need to embrace all central Europeans, even the Poles which is why I'm very cultural in those regards. :)
     
  14. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    I don't agree with that at all. We've a goddess named Ostara, she wasn't pulled like a rabbit out of a hat teehee. Pretty sure even Tacticus wrote about her in his writing about the Germanians to the Roman people.

    Ostara was a "real" goddess and if not "real" in physical form, still very enriched in philosophy and spirutal realms. :)

    I could pull a pantheon of gods names for the Saxons nobody has really heard of either, it doesn't mean they were any less relevant. That culture was unfortunately buried a long time ago. Luckily there's decent folk still around.

    "Eostre, the goddess of the moon, fertility, and spring in Anglo–Saxon myth, was often depicted with a hare's head or ears, and with a white hare standing in attendance."
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  15. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    There are many gods and goddesses we don't know about anymore. That's one thing that's certain. But what we do know is that some were very local and other more broader known. Doesn't mean the local ones which had more unique names couldn't be very important. Or have a similar counterpart in another culture. It's very likely there was a spring and fertility god(dess). It is unlikely with all we know at this point that she was called Eostre or Ostara. Okiefreak explains it.

    Looking at the broader picture is essential. Connecting the dots can lead just as easily to false conclusions as to the truth. So its unwise to connect them with certainty (conclude with certainty) when its not certain.
    Taking everything in account and connecting all the dots leads to the conclusion that Ostara is LIKELY a historic construct starting with Bede. If Tacitus (or someone else from Bedes days or before) mentioned Ostara that could change this. But it all depends on the details. How and what did he wrote.
     
  16. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    You don't know how I want to celebrate this holiday :D
     
  17. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    The fact that we are speaking of Ostara pretty much galvanises and cements her ideology as real... Whether you want to believe that people worshipped her or not doesn't detract her as any less real or an important figure. She was obviously very important for her to be written down as much as she was where we can construct her ideoology today from texts thousands of years old.

    /

    I know people get a little upset when their Christian values are mocked, or what they think they knew was wrong... But, lol, you can't change facts.
     
  18. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Actually, rabbits are a post-Christian addition to Easter festivities, and there is no evidence of any pagan traditions involving them. Rabbits would come out and do their thing during the spring Easter season, and that's how the association developed. The first record of the Easter Hare is in 1572, centuries after northern Europe was Christianized and pagans had faded from the scene.
    Georg Franck von Frankenau in De ovis paschalibus mentions a tradition in Alsace about an “Oschter Haws” distributing candy. In the 19th century, Jacob Grim in this German Mythology mentioned that hares were part of German pagan tradition, but provided no supporting evidence. The ancient Greeks linked rabbits to Aphrodite, and there are traditions involving them among Aztecs, Ojibwe and other Native American people.
    No but you can make them up. In this case the myth of pagan Easter began with a Scottish preacher named Alexander Hislop who was hot to show (gasp) pagan influence in Christian holidays in his book The Two Babylons (1858). The myth was spread and repeated, most recently on the internet. As mentioned, Bede and Shaw are our only sources, and we don't even know what she was goddess of. Can you mention one of those texts thousands of years old? Tacitus doesn't say a word about Asarata. Prove me wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  20. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Tacticus in the 1st century wrote about the Germanians belief structure, religion and Ostara.

    All the information is available for you to read on the internet. :) probably try looking past your 5min articles, I've observed them too. :)
     

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