guns aren't the issue drugs are

Most gun murders are gang murders. It we legalize pot, and treat the other drugs as a public health issue (addicts get treatment at the states expense, jurisdiction over drugs is given to the Center for Disease Control), we cut murders in half. And guns aren't taken

 

I think you're on the right track but there are many problems with your argument

1) You'd have to legalize all drugs and set up legal ways of manufacturing and distributing them to stop the violence that the black market has created. You can't just legalize the most popular illegal substance and expect the black market to go away.

2) There is little involvement of illegal drugs in these mass shootings. Which is what's spawning the controversy. Gangs are scary, but they just aren't the focus

3) It is not a short term solution; which is what people are looking for

4) There is no major push to ban all guns

 

What I meant was that you would have a massive PR campaign. Massive clean needle campaigns, massive campaigns to get everyone who wants to get clean access to the best quality rehab. Pot isn't an issue for the public so its just legal. The others get massive campaigns to end there use. The way we cut smoking in half.

 

It would also do something about the drug cartels and violence in Mexico too. What is going on in America is nothing compared to the violence in Mexico.

 

Yea but Mexicans are dirty they don't count

 

True.

Edit: I had to add a or it just looks mean.

 

Lmao those smiley things are a pain to use from my phone. Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my sig....."^^^^^This guy enjoys sarcastic humor^^^^^"

Anyways, back on topic. Guns are awesome blah blah blah. I like shooting shit rabble rabble rabble

 

But that doesn't solve the problem of the gangs.

Just because there are programs for the addicts doesn't mean we're going to be able to get them all treatment. And if we legalize marijuana - it's gonna put pressure on the cartels, distributors -- at every level, to push other drugs; find more users. And worse, it's going to make competition much more fierce among the dealers.

The root of the problem needs to be taken care of. That's prohibition.

 

Guns and drugs and many other things are problems – but to me the big problem is cultural.

My theory is that there is a general attitude among many Americans that accepts threat of violence, intimidation and suppression as legitimate means of societal control and this mindset gets in the way of them actually working toward solutions to their social and political problems.

This is because that attitude colours the way they think about and view the world from personal interaction to how they see other countries.

They can come to see the world as threatening, they can feel intimidated and fear that they are or could be the victim of criminal or political suppression.

This attitude can lead to a near paranoid outlook were everything and everyone is seen as a potential threat that is just waiting to attack or repress them. This taints the way they see the government, how criminality can be dealt with, how they see their fellow citizens, differing social classes, differing ethnic groups, and even differing political philosophies or ideas.

Within the framework of such a worldview guns seem attractive as a means of ‘equalising’ the individual against what they perceive as threats, it makes them feel that they are also ‘powerful’ and intimidating and that they too, if needs be, can deal with, in other words suppress the threatening.

The problem is that such attitudes can build up an irrational barrier between reality and myth, between what they see as prudent and sensible and what actually is prudent and sensible.

 

A lot of politics in the US (and many other places) is based on threat or fear.

Drugs policies are based on that and people desire for guns are based on that.

 

A right to bear arms? Or a right to arm bears?

 

That's a really good point actually.

Fucking A-bomb.

 

I'm all for legalizing drugs. It's a constitutional right, it's called the pursuit of happiness. It's also a religious freedom issue for native Americans.

But drugs are not the solution to the gun problem. None of the mass killings in the past six months were drug users, or drug dealers. The cop killer in L.A. wasn't, neither was the Sandy school killer. The Sikh temple killer was a neo-nazi, that was his problem. The Aurora theater killer might have been doing drugs, but probably prescription ones from his shrink.

The problem is assault weapons in the hands of nut jobs.

 

You said:
"They can come to see the world as threatening, they can feel intimidated and fear that they are or could be the victim of criminal or political suppression."

Actually, many people are, and that is the problem -- namely that it is not just a paranoid fear. Of course, what you go on to say, that it builds an irrational barrier between myth and reality, is true. It drives people to paranoia that is so unrealistic that they do such irrational things that they perpetuate for their suppressors the justification for the suppression.

But it starts from the top. It took decades of people peacefully demonstrating and violently being trampled underfoot by their oppressors to address the civil rights issues via racism and slavery. A civil war was even fought over it. It may or may not be true that Lincoln was more concerned about preserving the Union, but their is no shortage of historical documentation that shows the profound effect the Abolitionist movement had on his decision. It's people in those positions that have to make those decisions. Then the shit rolls downhill.

The real problem with America is its complacency, and the general unwillingness of its citizens to get up off their asses and stand up for civil rights instead of tuning in to the next episode of their favorite TV show. Really, America has become so complacent that I don't think it knows what its civil rights are, or how much has been taken away.

We can occupy Wall Street, because people won't have to go to jail and/or risk their lives to thumb their noses at a bunch of bankers, who will in any event just keep having lunch in their highrise and go on making dirty deals behind our backs.

Drug prohibition is a device intentionally implemented to control the lower classes, and drum up under-the-counter funds for shady overseas operations (Iran-Contra anyone?) and it's working well, probably now better than ever.

Of course, when you face poverty everyday, and the choice is a.) make thousands a week selling crack or b.) make a few hundred a week working at Wal-mart or Mcdonald's (if you can even get that job), well, after you've been shit on at Wal-mart or Mickey D's enough, the possibility of jail time stops looking like all that big a deal. And, after all, jail is where they get their best connections and learn how to be the best drug dealer/gang member's they can be.

So, ultimately what I'm saying is the suppression is not a delusion. It may be more a result of indifference than malice, but the result is the same. If we want a real change: if we want to do away with the counterproductive (to its stated goal) prohibition of peoples' vices, the abdication of fundamental civil liberties, and so on, the people will have to organize and put their lives on the line; but there have to be enough people willing to do it to really make it matter. I'm not sure I am willing to throw my life away like that right now, knowing I would be running ahead practically alone.

Unfortunately, most people believe the propaganda they've been sold (from either side), and, it seems to me, the TV and internet age has weakened peoples' attention spans to such a point that their minds are so ataxic they can't even assimilate points made beyond a couple of sentences; and it takes literate -- not semi-literate -- people with loads of concentration and willpower to assimilate the truth about the complexity of suppression occurring.

 

Osiris


Great post. Please don’t give up, the thing is that such things as I’m talking about are culturally ingrained, but such things can change as I’ve just said elsewhere once racism was culturally ingrained with large parts of white society, it has taken sometime and racism still exists but…

 

I think you've touched on something interesting here, even though I think you and I would disagree over what a civil liberty or right is. Regardless of that, a great post.

Something to keep in mind, though: it has been pointed out that in the American revolution something 2% of the total "American" population at the time actually took up arms. You don't need a lot to get momentum going.

 

Racism in America is not solely a white problem.

 

Making drugs legal , and controlling them wold reduce some of the gun vilonce . The gov. will never go along with it , too many people in key gov. offices are making too much money to ever let let there soruce of money go away . The c.i.a. gets money for wars in third . world countries from the drug trade for one . Big pharma. is #2 , why buy from them if you could grow , or create in your own lab ? I need to state for the record , the only drugs I use are caffine in iced tea , diet pop , and beer . desert rat

 

Hmmmm, I don't see that as being something your average American would have the patience for. Take beer for example; its legal and it is something that most in this country can legally make their own home. Yet, for some reason, most don't. I think the same would be true of legalized drugs, that the vast majority of users would still buy theirs from another person or possibly a company.

 

On beer , to brew your own takes a lot of work and knowledge , but there are some that do . There is no price savings to brewing your own . Some see it as a craft and skill . If you want to brew , or distill and sell it then you must pay a tax . True most Americans dont know how to brew beer , create l.s.d. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.S.D. , or even grow pot in there back yard . I guess even if all drugs were made legal , most people would haft to buy them form some one else . desert rat