Gun Control Proposals For The Usa

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Yeah, they should lose their trigger finger....I feel.....like this...you want to kill something or someone....then turn the gun on your own self?....i won't miss you....Why should anything else have to suffer for your primitive brain.
     
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  2. Beutsecks

    Beutsecks Large Rooster

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    Ding ding ding!!!!! I realize we don't want Sharia style punishments across the board in the US. But people who commit crimes with guns should be treated very badly. They say the death penalty does not have a measurable effect on the crime rate. I fail to see how this can be, but I'm certain that if someone thought they'd lose a finger over it they might think instead of allowing their emotions to rule. Look how waiting periods have affected the murder rate involving guns.
     
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  3. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Barbaric enough that it might work.
     
  4. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    I would rather lose a finger than go to jail (Jerry Garcia did alright with a missing finger!), but it is a non issue as that kind of eye for an eye punishment would never be enacted in the US.

    Overall I think the proposals listed in the OP are reasonable enough.
     
  5. Heat

    Heat Smile, it's contagious! :) Lifetime Supporter

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    I would support stiffer penalties for gun trafficking. I would also support the need for first time owners to also have some type of basic course on gun safety.

    It is not a matter of giving up, it is a matter of realistic expectations with regards to those who will continue to gain access to illegal guns. They are the ones who will not care about any changes or new legislation on guns. Those are the focus always of those asking for gun reform and the platform that is used to bring about reform to existing policies. I follow the laws for firearms and if new measures are brought in I will also follow those, as will most owners of registered arms. The target of the majority of the legislation, which is to remove illegal guns from communities, will not stop those who already have arms or intend to purchase one for illegal use. That is a reality.

    Edit to add rather than a new post.
    If one of my guns or all of them were stolen today and I reported them as such to the police, given that they are stored properly, it would make no difference in them being able to locate them until they are used and the person is apprehended. That is the reality, that no law is going to recover that firearm faster.

    Is that similar to guns do not kill people?

    If a firearm is used to commit a crime, then given it is a crime that does make the person on that end of the gun a criminal.

    If you mean to infer that sometimes a gun is used and it is then determined to be a criminal that is a different ball game and the laws are there to determine that. No different than any new law or amendment to existing laws would then determine what was criminal.

    Red herring of a statement.
     
  6. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    So Balbus, you're a victim blamer eh?? Way to show your true colors.

    By this logic, you're the type that would blame a rape victim for her own rape because she was dressing too skanky and provocatively. There's way too many variables in theft situations to just blame it all on the theft victim. What if the gun owner lived in a motor home and, stored their guns inside, and had their home stolen? There's too many variables in theft cases.
     
  7. Beutsecks

    Beutsecks Large Rooster

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    I take no pleasure in thinking this. But I have known a LOT of criminals over the years and most are not only adept at gaming the system, they learn nothing from simple imprisonment. They have no interest in reforming their lives or conforming with society. I'm all for letting people find themselves, but I am very very tired of fking criminals being babied through the system. Who is more important, the crooks or the citizens they torment? Who actually pays the bills and who just makes more bills?
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Flag


    As has been mentioned - According to the FBI virtually all the guns in criminal hands were once purchased legally but then been sold or handed on or stolen.

    *Any guns would have to be presented for inspection 6 months after purchase

    *If the gun has been lost or stolen and that has not been reported that would result in heavy fine and/or custodial sentence.

    These are meant as deterrents to such behaviour it might not stop it completely but it’s a start and better than just doing nothing.
     
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Rhad

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Where these people born criminals? [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]It has been mentioned several times in the gun control debates that it’s not just about gun control regulation there it should be a part of a holistic approach, that would involve, drugs laws, environment, healthcare and ‘feeding people’.[/SIZE]
     
  10. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Gas[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]I ask to see if people can answer – you clearly can’t answer – maybe you could ask someone else who does have a grasp of the issues to reply for you? [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Again I ask you how is lying about what I’ve said supposed to help you? [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Actually I’ve pointed out many times that it is often pr-gunners that frequently mention violent criminal activity to seemingly stoke fear and so as a reason for others to get a gun. [/SIZE]
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    That is not logical at all - it’s like arguing an apple is a cucumber because both are fruit.

    [edit] To explain - the gun owner would only be fined if they were not complying with a law (to secure their gun) put in place to try and lessen harm if they were complying with the law they’d be ok. So if they were not complying with the law then they are not a ‘victim’ they are breaking the law.

    The woman is not breaking any law in what she is wearing it is her attacker who is breaking the law by attacking her.

    In neither case is the breaker of the law the victim so your comparison doesn't make sense.

    Was the gun secured in a safe within the motor home?
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Heat[/SIZE]



    [SIZE=11pt]Most people are responsible and honest citizens they would not dream of abusing their kids, stealing from other, fiddling their taxes or driving while intoxicated. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Laws aimed at catching and prosecuting the perpetrators of such acts are not aimed at those responsible and honest citizens. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]But it would seem naive to me to claim that since honestly people don’t do those things there is no need for such laws. [/SIZE]




    [SIZE=11pt]Sorry maybe I should have made this clear but the proposals are aim at and for the US (I have now edited the title to reflect this) and they came about through debate on the US gun issue in other thread on that subject they are not aimed at Canada or the UK for example.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Looking at the Canadian legislation it is very much what I would mean by having guns stored in a secure manner.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/storage-entreposage-eng1.pdf[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]For handguns for example –[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Must be secured by a locking device (e.g. trigger lock) so that it cannot be fired [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]and [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]must be locked into a room or container that is hard to break into[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]; or [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]must be locked in a safe/vault (if locked in a safe, there is no need for a secure locking device).[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]*[/SIZE]

    Do you think that if such regulations (as proposed in the OP) were enacted in the US that this might improve the American situation?
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Heat[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Ottawa seems to have below average crime rates for Canada, above average income rates and slightly below average unemployment rates and sounds like a nice place.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]But lets look at the country as a whole in comparison to the US[/SIZE]

    Firearm-related deaths rate per 100,000 population.

    US – 10.3

    Canada : 2.22

    Homicides by any method per 100.000

    US - 2011: 5.1

    Canada : 1.6

    Gun related homicides per 100,000

    US 2011: 3.6

    Canada : 0.51

    It would seem that Canada is closer to Europe statistically than the US.

    [SIZE=11pt]*[/SIZE]

    The U.S.'s neighbor to the north also has outstandingly low gun casualty statistics. In 2009, there were 0.5 deaths per 100,000 from gun homicide — only 173 people. Still, the ownership is comparatively high — there are 23.8 firearms per 100 people in the country.

    There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada. It takes sixty days to buy a gun there, and there is mandatory licensing for gun owners. Gun owners pursuing a license must have third-party references, take a safety training course and pass a background check with a focus on mental, criminal and addiction histories.

    Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license, and licenses are denied to applicants with any past history of domestic violence. Buyers in private sales of weapons must pass official background checks.

    Canadian civilians aren't allowed to possess automatic weapons, handguns with a barrel shorter than 10.5 cm or any modified handgun, rifle or shotgun. Most semi-automatic assault weapons are also banned. As a result of exemptions, several kinds of assault weapons are still legal in Canada, although this has been the source of some controversy.

    [SIZE=11pt]http://www.businessinsider.com/canada-australia-japan-britain-gun-control-2013-1?IR=T[/SIZE]
     
  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The argument has been put forth that certain revisions in the law will not stop criminals from having guns. What I am saying is that non criminals can now legally buy assault weapons and large capacity magazines, in some states, and then use them for criminal activities...thus making them post facto criminals.

    This was in response to your post:
    All I am saying is that if legal assault weapons and high capacity magazines are outlawed, one more tool of mass destruction is removed from the hands of not only criminals, but potential criminals. First time or repeat criminals may still commit illegal acts, but it will be harder for them to use an extremely deadly weapon.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]I dropped something from an earlier draft of my list because of objections that it could be open to abuse my malicious partners – the proposal was [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]If in a relationship a partner, if they could give due reason, would have the ability to veto (in confidence) the handing out of a gun license (or have it removed).[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Having read the Canadian position I would now add to the list the same idea they have in place [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]. [/SIZE]
     
  16. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Lol. You may as well start taking cars off of people too. They're a dangerous weapon and in many countries car deaths are greater than firearms deaths. If you took cars off people, but kept guns, there'd be less people dying every year. Also, many more illegal activities involve people and cars on the daily than people with firearms. More people would drink and drive every day, speed, street race, uncontrollable driving, erratic driving, drug driving than people get shot.
     
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  17. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    There's 1000 different ways to steal a gun that don't include taking it from a home that didn't keep it locked in a safe. Sometimes they have to take it out of a safe in order to transport it.

    Your proposal basically says: "It's your fault your gun got stolen." That's victim blaming. Just like telling a rape victim, "It's your fault you got raped."


    What difference does it make? Once the thief steals the whole safe, they've got plenty of time and resources to crack it open.


    Let's face it. You started this thread because you wouldn't let the last one die after you exhausted it in 25 pages after everyone lost interest.
     
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  18. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    ^never really got that metaphor. Guns are tools for killing. That is what they are and why they are made. There is no other use for a gun.

    Cars are made for transportation. People die in cars - a lot, I'll give you that. I wouldn't mind seeing cars banned, they're horrible for the environment and they're dangerous and I personally hate them - but still, they aren't created with the specific intention of killing another being. It isn't really a valid comparison.

    No one has suggested banning guns in this thread anyways.
     
  19. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    My arrow is supposed to be pointing at irmisul's post but I'm not quick enough
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    I dunno, a family member of mine recently had his front door chopped down with an ax or some shit and his guns were stolen. He has never made an attempt to put his guns up, even when his kids were young. They've always been out in plain sight. I feel really bad for him that some meth head broke into his house, especially in such a violent way, but I do feel like if he had secured his guns then some crazy criminal wouldn't be running around with their illegal guns now.

    Guns are a big responsibility - you hear the words responsible gun owner thrown around quite a lot but a lot of the shit that happens with guns would never happen if the gun owner was actually being responsible.
     

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