God exists. I know this because deep down in my heart I know he loves me, even when I do something stupid, I know He still loves me. That's all the evidence I need to know God exists!
God is everywhere and everything, I would just know if I saw him, almost instinctively. I don't know for sure though because I've never seen him. Also, us Catholics believe God has three forms, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. The father, obviously GOD FORM The son, JESUS The holy spirit, how God is everywhere at once, sort of like a ghost, and also , you can be filled with the holy spirit like at church.
Are you serious? Really think about what your saying... why would god love you if you go against him? What sense does that make? God as religion paints him to be does not make sense, there is no argument other than "I believe"... but perhaps maybe YOU should demand more undeniable truth before you base your life around such falsity. Yes you are capable of critical thought, please direct that thought towards the logical believability of god as you know him now... if nothing else, think about all the corruption in the church, the wars in "gods" name that we obviously can look back on and say it was serving the demands of man - not god.... a religion based on creationism - which has been completely and unrefutably debunked.... How can you continue to follow such belief? If you want my honest thoughts... the God as you know is actually satan... "god" is truth, "god" is all that is nature... by believing humanity is outside of nature, you have fallen into "satan's" hands without even knowing it... is that not how the devil works? The story of adam and eve, they went against nature, they picked from a tree they weren't supposed to... they listened to the snake, they were mislead... Will you continue to be mislead, or will you return the earth back to the garden of eden it once was?
It seems a short and pointless thread she's started, but she's on to something here: Those against religion (especially Christianity), constantly want proof or reason or logic for a diety. But you must understand that religion doesn't need to be explained by science and vice versa. Perhaps it is something that cannot be measured, an element of our universe not ruled by science? Most people believe not because of their "brainwashing" as a child, but because of a religous/spiritual experience. Until you feel, not think, God exists, it's impossible to justify belief. One cannot tell you about God, but simply show you the way. I wish more Christians held onto this Emery lyric: "Take my hand, not words said desperately; it's not our job to make anyone believe." So many people hate Christianity simply because of misunderstanding or confusion of Scripture, misquoting of Old Testemant verses, or a lack of trust in someone other than themselves. For all religion, hate the extremists that warp the message of religion, not the religion itself. Here in America (and the Middle East, etc.) we've moved so far away from embracing the love and hope religion offers and focusing on the ignorance and negativity...it's sad...
If he is everywhere and everything and you "instinctively" knew he was there... you would at all times be aware of him. If you don't know for sure if you have seen something/someone that is in *everything* and *everywhere*, perhaps its time to change your beliefs. While you are at it, prove to me that Jesus actually existed as the bible says he did. And for good measure, explain to me the proper way to interpret the bible, and prove to me that your interpretation is correct. I'll help ya out - the only way the bible could have the least bit of credibility is if it was 100% true. If you 100% go off what the bible says, your going to jail.
Religion seeks to answer questions science *can* answer. This has been evident throughout history, and this is how religion evolved into what it is today. As in my above post... if you live by a religion that *interprets* the bible... you must concede that your interpretation may not be correct - the bible interpretation is *always* changing, and there are infinite ways to look at it... if it was the one truth, it would have to be taken entirely literally. Once again, you take the bible literally and your going to jail... not to mention breaking many of the 10 commandments. Its a sham, open your mind and seek to prove god exists, truly and dutifully prove he exists... you will find many an alternate explanation and theory that is infinitely more plausible, and you will find science has answered many of the questions you believe unanswerable. Evolution is real, creationism is not... in that fact you must now assume all of the bible and the religions based upon it to be false. Read my above theory on the god you currently worship actually being the theoretical satan... now that does make sense. Honestly, think about what the bible *really* teaches you... don't omit what you don't want to see, don't take things out of context... think about what is *actually* in there - lots of hate and violence... Now think about how christians, islamic, etc etc have gone outside a peaceful existance so they may kill those who disagree... how is that acceptable in any regard? Would those who have killed truly go to hell? Do you want to follow and support the people that are responsible for genocide? Yes, the folks that were here before europeans called it america were the victims of a christian lead genocide... just to give an example that hits close to home. Religion does not allow for peace... please do not continue such hate.
You're producing such impossible arguments: How can she prove anything that happened 2000 years ago? The only evidence of ancient events is what is written, and if we found more text describing Jesus as divine you would just reject that the same way you reject the Gospel. For believers, the fact that if you believe and follow 100% of the Bible, you will go to jail, is a sympton that our current legal system is broken, not God. Plus, prove to me why you would go to jail: quote me some New Testemant Scripture that openly breaks our law! You must be informed of both sides of the argument before making hasty assumptions! Anti-thiests keep repeating the same boring arguments that are just ignorant, self-righteous sophistry. Such anger, I just don't understand why...
The new testament promotes slavery - says slaves should obey their slavemasters... thats one that comes to mind, I can find it if you like. Do you wish to re-enact slavery? I can get a tremendous amount of info on great men that lived even thousands of years before Jesus... yet I can get not one tidbit on a man that relatively recently performed miracles and lead a revolution. There is no historical account, at all. The same boring arguments are the same arguments that refute your same boring arguments. Its not the other way around.
Are we not saying the same thing: I say belief comes from the religious experience, something deeply personal, and not from someone preaching a text to you. And you are saying something so very different how? Did I say I agree with Creationism? I believe God used evolution to achieve this world. And if you open your eyes to alternate theories, you'll realize that evolution is very much like a religion in and of itself nowadays. I believe in it, but read some literature before coming to such certain of conclusions (i.e. Icons of Evolution by Jonathan Wells.) And interpretations change because the world changes. God can't appeal to the needs of Israel under Roman rule and a heroin junkie in NYC. Pretty obvious there...
yelbow you truly symbolize the lack of understanding that is wrong with people today. religion does not cause wars, idiots that misinterpret holy scriptures cause wars. there is nothing in the new testament that promotes violence. and don't even quote the old testament, because that is an era long long gone. it was flawed which is the whole reason Jesus Christ, our lord and saviour, came in the first place. To attribute such atrocities to his name and to that of God is utterably ignorant. The entire point of almost every religion is peace and love. If everyone on the Earth followed this simple doctrine, and loved their bretheren as they love themselves, we would have a utopia. so how is religion bad an any way shape and form?
Jesus was not that huge of a thing worldwide in his day, not until nearly a century later did His message spread during the Jewish Diaspora. He has been mentioned by at least one historical, non-Christian source during his life. The name of the source is not on my mind at the moment - I'll try to find it again soon. As for slavery, again, it was a different world. Different interpretation for different times. Slaves were a necessary part of the economy! You couldn't just get rid of them until the Industrial Revolution, it was so ingrained to human survival, as vile as that is. Jesus wasn't here to save our society, but to set up a plan for salvation for the afterlife. That's why he didn't directly liberate the Jews or go against unfair taxes under Caeser either. This is a very sketchy argument I don't fully support about slavery in The Bible: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/04-28-06.asp It may help, please don't waste your time picking it apart specifically. "Where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty" - - 2 Corinthians 3:17 Give me some more Biblical reasons you don't believe. I'm not here to undermine and embarass you - I'm here to clear up so many of these Scripture misunderstandings! Thank you for at least listening...
I will quote an interesting article from Amazon: Robert J. Hutchinson says: "For more than 400 years, now, secular fundamentalists of varying persuasions have been predicting the demise of Biblical religion and the triumph of "reason" and Science. Beginning with the philosophes of the 18th century French Enlightenment... continuing on with the "scientific" atheism of 19th century philosophers... reaching a kind of apex in the social doctrines of Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Alfred Rosenberg... we have been assured that, freed from the blind superstitions and outright imbecilities of organized religion, rational secularists would be able to make the world a virtual utopia. Without the constraints of "bourgeois morality," these more "rational" secularists would be able to plan economies and societies "scientifically"... quietly "help" the old and feeble (rarely themselves) to die... perform once-taboo medical research on human subjects that would eventually result in "superior" human beings.... and the world would be a much better place. Of course, it didn't quite work out that way. According to the remarkable research conducted by the political scientist Rudolph Rummel at the University of Hawaii, the officially atheist states of the Communist bloc have committed more acts of genocide than any societies in history - including the quite-bloody Mongol dynasties of the 13th century. When you add in the anti-Christian fascist nations, the numbers of people slaughtered are almost unimaginable. In Rummel's research, the primarily atheist, at the very least anti-Christian governments of the 20th century murdered approximately 170 million of their own people : * USSR (1917-1987): 61 million people murdered... * Communist China (1949-present): 35.2 million people murdered... * Mao's Army (1923-49): 3.4 million people murdered... * Nazi Germany (1932-1945): 20 million people murdered... * Communist Poland (1945-48): 1.6 million people murdered... * Communist Cambodia (1975-79): 2 million people murdered... * Communist Vietnam (1945-1975): 1.6 million people murdered... * Communist Yugoslavia (1944-87): 1 million people murdered... * Anti-Christian Mexican Revolution (1900-1920): 1.4 million people murdered... * Secular Turkey (1900-1918): 1.8 million people murdered... * Japan (1936-45): 5.9 million people murdered... Rummel's conclusion is as shocking as it is inescapable: War wasn't the most deadly evil to afflict humanity in the 20th century. Government was! And not just any government... officially atheist or anti-Christian government. As a result, ordinary people - whether religious or not -- might be forgiven their general skepticism when today's secular fundamentalists start ranting about the "intolerance" and "violence" of religious people. In terms of raw numbers - which is the only kind of evidence that rationalists such as Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins claim to accept - the evidence is incontrovertible: Freed of any moral restraint, believing that the ends justify the means, scoffing at the notion that they will ever answer to a Higher Power than themselves, the murderous dictators of officially atheistic regimes feel little hesitation in committing mass murder if they believe it will advance their more "rational," more "scientific" social aims." Realize now I am not attacking athiesm, but simply proving that hatred and murder can come from any belief system - even if that system is a lack of any belief. It is the person that kills, not the belief he twists. Getting rid of religion because it causes inpirations of homicide would be like getting rid of guns becuase thye allow people to murder. Get rid of religion and you'll still see just as much hatred, becuase if you got rid of guns you would just have a spike in stabbings. It's a muddy analogy, I know, but I just want you to understand that anger/hatred comes from warping Scripture, not Scripture itself, and is prevelant without it.
You seem willing to actually question your beliefs... but I will not rattle off scripture that may be interpreted as you see fit... this is one of many points as to why religion is bogus. We have the *ability* to disagree with the apparant word of god... how is that even possible? Because if you take it literally, the bible will NOT lead you in a "good" path. If you can interpret, I can interpret, and we will *never* arrive at who is correct until one of us kills the other, that is how history has played out and that is truth. Now, accepting evolution as fact is very noble, but the bible DOES NOT allow for that. If you wish to believe in a supreme being, you must believe he created the original life form that evolved into what we are today... but if you DO believe that, you must assume that *all* of nature is god's creation, *none* is to be held above another... and if you really think about it, it does make perfect sense. If you really think about it, the idea that satan is defined by the god of the bible is entirely plausible. Thats a conclusion logic may derive... and if god is to exist, his existence must make logical sense. Truth can always be explained - always. Like I said, *really* think about it... I'm not going to say there is no god, in fact, I will say there is plausibly something that in some way "created" us and it wishes us to live in some way. If you do belive that, you must believe we are to live in harmony with nature, NOT that we are "given" this world to do as we please. If god created all of nature "in his image", we are literally living by satan's word by living by the bible... or by being what we have been told we are all "born" as. To say a creation of god is born in sin is to say god makes mistakes... why would we evolve to this point only to be in sin? How does that make any bit of sense? What is the truth? The truth is that babies are born entirely free of sin... the truth is that "sin" doesn't exist, because it cannot be clearly defined, because it is "up for interpretation... If that doesn't mean a bit to ya, please review the links below - the movie is quite stimulating Jesus Didn't Exist Movie that explains how the christian religion was formed (among many other things, give it a chance please, good movie )
Religion is based on falsity... you cannot ever irrefutably prove god, but you *can* present the most plausible and progressive theories. If we all base our beliefs on what is the most plausible, and decide to agree to disagree in the meantime, sure, we can all have peace. Christianity DOES NOT allow for this... it says if you don't believe in god your going to hell. It draws the distinction of good and evil... and those who go against god are evil. This allows for one man to define himself as better than the next, and whenever you have that you have war... there is no way around it. Religion not based on logic is going to cause trouble because you can never have a sensible argument, it is not based on logic... it is based on belief. If you blindly believe something that you cannot possibly back up, how do you expect everyoneor ANYONE to agree? What makes their blind beliefs any different? If you allow yourself to be blindly lead, why cannot someone else be blindly lead into killing you? Its the very core of the belief mentality that doesn't allow for peace... it allows for its followers to be controlled, because if you blindly believe one thing... you may be lead to believe anything. Everyone can *never* agree on a blind belief, but everyone *can* agree to disagree if everyone is allowed to logically derive what they see as truth. Gotta see the big picture.
CrankYelbow you are Holdin' it down baby! The 1st era of Palestine is the MOST recorded era of ALL TIME. They kept records of everyone from unknown peasants, to kings. If Jesus caused such a rebellion and such turmoil, then you would think he would be in the records..... but he is not. I'm not trying to disprove Jesus's existence, I'm just giving you an alternative. From the kindness in my heart, I will debate my own argument because it seems as though you Christians need help. Jesus was not very well liked back in his day. He lived life as a criminal. Many Government officials, and even the priests in that time saw him as a threat, so it is possible that they purposely DIDN'T record him. Now, on to another thing. This emotional feeling that you get, that 'proves' G-d exists, is fallible, and even laughable. If you are going to base what you believe on simply in emotion's hands, you need to smack yourself. Explain me something. How come those who are Hindu get that same "feeling" as you do, when they praise their G-d? Does this mean their G-d is real and your isn't? Vice versa? C'mon, whos' right here? Satanists get the same "feeling", and so did the Greek when they praised Zeus. It's funny, when I used to go to church, I would also experience this feeling. You know what though, I get this same "feeling" when I listen to "Dust in the Wind". So what does that mean? What is the difference between Zeus and G-d? Zeus is a fictional character, made from the imagination of the Greek's of the time. Same with G-d. Neither can be proven, and we can ALL clearly see that BOTH are ridiculous. G-d made woman out of a man's ribs... WTF. Why didn't It just click It's his heels and Wham, Bam, Thank you Ma'am! Why did It have to flood the whole Earth, did It make a mistake by putting us here? But wait.... G-d doesn't make mistakes, It CAN'T. "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth – men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air – for I am grieved that I have made them.” From the words of YOUR OWN Holy Book. Seems pretty clear that It did make a mistake. I'm going to end my post like this... " I believe, man made G-d out of ignorance and fear, if G-d made man, then why the hell he put us here?" - Dead Prez
If you roll with the natural god that I proposed (logically) above... you must believe that statement to mean man *is* wrong, and man *is* bad, because we go against all that is truly god - nature... but its done BECAUSE of this belief in an all powerful god, and humans being "chosen" to rule the earth. It does make sense if you truly think about it... I have, for hours upon hours on end... these are my conclusions God must make sense, he can't possibly have contradictions, he can't possibly have mistakes... you must believe that if you believe in god, but the christian religion is *full* of holes and contradictions. Logical belief has a place in this world, blind belief is what caused and causes all its problems.
