Gender quandaries continued: men's necessary disappointment in the female

Discussion in 'Relationships' started by fexurbis, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    Or how women can't win: Women are socially expected to both reject and to be with someone. An impossibility...

    I'm starting to get wind of our difficulties. Unfortunately most of us take the pains of one side or the other, women or men, without understand the whole picture and its dynamic.

    Gender relations are full of quandaries, conundrums and double negatives that make relationships essentially impossible.

    a) I've already mentioned that men are required to be macho and not simultaneously;

    b) Women are required to be with someone and to reject simultaneously;

    c) Another social expectation: men are to have a lot of sex (and frequently women will reject men who "appear not to be successful with the ladies") and women are not. Another social expectation...another impossibility;

    The point is that our Platonic-Christian tradition creates these unsolvable conundrums as a way to curb the tidal momentum of libidinal discharge --- sex! Which it considers dirty in-itself, and only justifiable in the context of metaphysical/non-carnal connections between men and women. Hence marriage...hence love. And all such myths which our biology does not accomodate.
  2. sexbanshee

    sexbanshee Member

    I totally agree...

    and I have always felt the idea
    of monogamy to be preposterous

    We need to move away from our
    past "brainwashing"

    and to start to face the truth which

    Men and women just do not understand
    each other and at times have no idea
    how to yield to the differences......

    I for one do not believe in the institution
    of marriage...

    It is becoming outdated and rather silly!
  3. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    I used to have the same opinion. Now, even that has been problematized:

    I still think the institution of marriage to be harmful in many aspects (though positive in others...for instance, it seems to support social cohesion and family ties)...

    One of the costs of marriage is prostitution.

    In fact, a sub-section of the female population is renderred expendable by the institution of marriage. Even though prostitutes and wives share a symbiotic relationship, wives have the priviledge of looking down from their judgemental high-horse.

    Monogamy (which is compulsory), generally, has all sorts of hidden costs which we may not even be aware of: violence, addiction, mental illness, suicide, etc. et al due to libidinal suppression.

    Another obvious cost of marriage has been women's oppression, which monogamy has had a historical role in maintaining.

    However, there are existential and biological aspects to consider: the quandary may in fact be inevitable...

    a) we do not know how much the social institution of marriage and compulsory monogamy (which appears, from biological and statistic data to go against the genetic makeup of primates) is a response to another biological instinct: that of possession/appropriation and procreation/expropriation;

    b) existentially, it may be that human relationships are essentially sado-masochistic in nature. And that conflict is as much a necessity in human relationships as conciliation. In that case, it would be helpful do define "who's in" and "who's out" through the fabrication of exclusivistic relationships;

    c) I do not know to what extent women's oppression is biologically inevitable. Everytime I hear women insisting on being shorter, weaker, younger, and earning less than their male partners, I suspect biology might be having a say, as much as social taboos and superstitions;

    On a personal level, I struggle between the need for intimacy (and therefore to be given priority) and sexual freedom.
  4. WhisperingWoods

    WhisperingWoods too far gone

    In the modern age, we depend less and less on our biological make-up, and more on our learned abilities and mental processes. When women are shorter, weaker, younger, and earn less than their peers, that is undoubtedly society--rather than biology--having a say.

    These days, construction work, for instance, relies upon heavy machinery rather than heavy manual labor. There is no need to hire the 250 lb. strong-man to operate a crane, fork lift, or nail gun. Gender is therefore rendered an unnecessary detail.

    This is not to say that one's biological make-up does not influence society in this way--it most certainly does.

    What do you think?
  5. Bella Désordre

    Bella Désordre Charmed

    There's a way to keep a guy's balls intacted and get what you want though. You just have to be smart about it. Ask him out but make him think it's his idea, come onto him physically but do it in an innocent way just have to be smart about it.
    Unfortunatley biology will almost always over ride value systems. As much as men complain about women who are unattainable they LOVE the chase. If you make them chase you too long though they get addicted to the chase and not you as a person and once they 'have' you they stop trying. I've made the mistake of thinking someone loved me when it was just simple infatuation because I played the game too well, too long, not because they liked me as a person.
  6. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    Phew! Must be one of those pop psychology, "How to..." books you read. Tell me how successful you've been in fostering emotional connections with men and getting emotionally satisfied.

    You seem to believe your Machiavellian books like the Holy Word so, I figured they've gotten you somewhere past diamond rings, and free rides in the Benzy.
  7. Bella Désordre

    Bella Désordre Charmed

    Yes, I wrote the book on fostering emotional connections because I am just that emotionaly healthy and have had such deep relationships. I think what I was trying to articulate is that there's a fine line between playing coy and being a bitch.
    Yeah because those guys are so nice and attentive, especially after you agree to have an exclusive relationship...

  8. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    Yes, I forgot. You wrote the book on being flawless, statuesque, and what else again?
  9. Bella Désordre

    Bella Désordre Charmed

    Always perfectly matching my shoes to my outfit...tall, perfect and cute shoes=the most important things in life.

    What's most important for you? Alienating an entire gender because of fear of rejection?

  10. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    There are 5 things which are important to me:

    1) to welcome struggle/challenge playfully;

    2) to remain alert to the moment and its possibilities rather than wishing to escape it;

    3) to behave authentically toward myself and others;

    4) to follow not reason or prescriptions but my own nose and take action, rightly or wrongly, spontaneously;

    5) to take full responsibility for my experience and remain complete in my existential solitude;

    Why do you assume I alienate an entire gender because of fear of rejection? Let's hear it...I'm interested to know.

    BTW, I am deathly afraid of rejection, but I've done much in my life that I was deathly afraid of it.

    And just so you know it, women haven't copyrighted rejection. I too have the capacity to reject.
  11. Bella Désordre

    Bella Désordre Charmed

    You said earlier that you refuse to come onto women.

    I always tell someone when I like them...eventually anyway. If I am hesitant to or wait it's because I am afraid of something. I am not being so obnoxious as to say my behaviors are the ultimate social norm, but am rather comparing them to what you have posted in other threads.

  12. Haid

    Haid Member

    I actually think this a problem that both genders have. Everyone is so spoiled that they deserve "perfection" with the lest amount of effort on their part. It isn't like that so people just keep searching and whining. Nothing comes easy and no one is a perfect prince or princess.
  13. fexurbis

    fexurbis Member

    I would LOVE to come on to women, be sincere about my feelings and desires towards them, etc. et al.

    The problem is the conundrum I've talked about in the other thread. I feel it is required of me that I be hypocritical of my sexual desires, for one, and, secondly, that I play gender roles (particularly that of the initiator). As soon as I behave authentically, I'm a rapist in women's eyes. That simple.

    And so, the only solution I found was waiting for women to come to me (which happens every now and again). For now, I'll admit to my partially self-imposed isolation: self-imposed because I'll agree to step out of it only under some hard-to-meet conditions. A hunger strike if you will...not that anybody gives a fuck, but I need to act according to some logic in life and make certain choices. What other course of action would you suggest?

    I therefore think that fear of rejection is a minor contributing factor to my self-imposed isolation from women. I may be the rejector himself. Or at least until a bump into a woman who doesn't cripple herself.

    As for you, I think it's great that you're able to voice your feelings toward men. Women generally are socially incapacitated in that regard.

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