gay guy giving off straight signals

Discussion in 'Gay' started by ronald Macdonald, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. It seems to happen alot to my female friends

    Like yesterday, a friendly nod of the head to a guy that was glancing her way.. Next thing I know, he's moved to a seat nearer to her and his smile has widened!

    Other times, because everybody believes they have a sixth sense for these kind of things, I've had to politely fend off the flirting of guys who've picked up something I've displayed in her body language..

    So two questions..

    1. What are these signals that women (not gay men. I assume there are a whole different set of signals for you!) pick up on?

    2. Are we all a little bit straight? I know there as been a thread title for this already, but it became a humour thread.. I want to be serious here.. Do we all have the potential to be straight?
     
  2. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    I see what you did there.

    I've been told that I'm straight acting, but in my experience no, it's more like straight girls just think everyone wants them sexually and respond accordingly. Since I'm above average in terms of attractiveness (...What?!) they'll usually have a shot and be all like "I can't believe you're gay", and I'm just like "I can't believe it's not butter", and usually once they know you're not interested in having a pyjama party with them and generally being their new pet homo they lose interest and start trying to set you up with completely inappropriate dudes.

    That just how these things go down.
     
  3. LJDV

    LJDV Member

    I think that straight women see a bit of themselves in gay men. They find some underlying sense that we understand them (which most of us do) and they pick up on that. They find gay men attractive. Plus women (a lot of times) want what they can't have.
     
  4. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    I agree in part, but I don't think it's necessarily a good thing thinking of gay guys are women in men's bodies. I'm sure some of them feel like that, but I know that most aren't really; even if they like girly stuff, at heart they're still male, and still have different drives. I don't know, you can see the difference between gay guys who most hang around with straight women and gay guys who hang around straight guys, or even just a mix.
     
  5. LJDV

    LJDV Member

    Yeah, I didn't mean that gay men feel like women in men's bodies, really. I meant more along the lines of we just understand women because we, too, deal with men on a romantic level. I would never trade being a gay man for being a straight woman, ever...
     
  6. ^^I totally agree with pretty much everything just said. I can definitely see a difference in the types of gays I hang out with. I've been told a LOT of times by girls that they had no idea I was gay, like I gave off no hints. But I've also been told by other gay guys that it's incredibly obvious by my body language and facial expressions. The question "do we all have the potential to be straight?", has the same answers as the question "do we all have the potential to be gay?". The answer is simple: there's heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual (excluding all those other random ones, i.e. pansexual, etc...). Some people only like the opposite gender sexually. Some people see it like, when it comes to love and sex, gender doesn't matter. And there's those who only find the same gender sexually suitable. I've experimented with girls before, but after the second time, I knew that I NEVER wanted it again. Ever. I'm strictly dickly lol.
     
  7. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.


    I get that up to a point, I feel like I can kinda think like either gender sometimes. I just don't like it, it feels strange. I kinda envy people who don't.
     
  8. doom876

    doom876 Member

    True that
    I agree most people think they have gaydar(I joke about it, but I know it's balognia). Would 90% be an accuret number of streight people think gay guys are all sensetive and feminine. I hear people discussing gay people and thinking of us in stereotypical terms like that, or think making a boob,or other female part related dirty joke(I'm 16, I need to get these jokes out before it becomes creepy and illegal) makes me streightish. I have no infatuation with women, if I want to talk to one or smile at one, or flick my friend in the book when I'm drunk that one time(she laughed after the innitial "ow", we know each oter well enough to be stupid). Maybe women can relate to us better due to them liking guys too, but I still think they just expect sensitivity and stuff(dispite not being feminine, I am sensitive darn it><).
    Once again, I ramble on sometimes, sorry.
     
  9. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    I wonder if sometimes women like gay guys because it's like, they're women, but they're allowed to be sluts and such. Like it's an admiration thing or something.

    I get the femininity thing, and me and my friends have a sort of unspoken agreement that it's cool to do gay jokes or even lengthy rants, because I'm officially "not like those gays", but I'm pretty sure I could stop it whenever. There's been one instance where someone kinda over-stepped the mark, and it wasn't even that bad, and I was just like "dude... not cool" and it was dealt with. I think it's better that way, to be honest. I meet gay guys who only seem to hang out with a little enclave of girls and/or other gays, and they're so feminised, more than they were normally (i.e. when they're just around me, rather than playing up to the coven) and I know that's not something I want to be. Dudes seem to at least accept that you're a complex individual. They don't care, but they don't kid you that they can relate to some of the gay stuff that there really is no equivalent to.
     
  10. Mychal

    Mychal Member

    I don't idolize masculinity.
    I don't glamorize femininity.
    I look at my masculine traits, and accept them and develop them.
    I look at my feminine traits the same way.

    Compared to straight men, I might seem lucky because I can 'indulge' my famine side. But really, straight guys can do that too. And alot of them do it more than gay dudes. Listen, nobody, but nobody does butch like a gay man, not even a bull dyke.

    However, if you need to make me the butt of your horse ass jokes or make gay folk the butt of your horse ass jokes -Ahhh... not fair.
    Even a little is disrespectful and too much.

    if you gotta do it, do it behind my back and look both ways first
    because i will shut you down.

    I don't tell Polish jokes, I don't tell Limey jokes and I certainly don't tell **** jokes. It's juvenile.

    Dude, I'd start looking for a better class of friends. You deserve more; You should never have to tell your friends that a gay joke is inappropriate., because if they are your friend, they would know.

    oops, ouch!~ didn't mean to bite your ass

    okay, yeah I did.

    stil, I'm sorry, because I know what it's like to be alone and feel like you have to do what ever... just to have a friend.

    ... it's what they do to us ...
     
  11. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    They don't do it to me. Or rather, they don't just do it to me. Fact is, if they didn't take the piss out of that, I'd be getting special treatment. I mean, I make fun of my mate Dan for being a cripple all the time, and my mate Nick for listening to shit music all the time. Among my friends, I'd feel a lot weirder if they felt the need to cut me some slack, in case I got offended.

    Maybe I'm just broken deep down though.
     
  12. doom876

    doom876 Member

    rant ahead!
    I'm with selfcontrol, everyone makes fun of everyone in my group(exept the girls, one who doesn't dish it or take it much, and one who dishes it and gets pissed when she is told something(like walkin on eggshells)I will tell her when she is being an ass though, she is not immune to being called a bitch if she goes there). If someone truely oversteps my boundries I'll tell them, and retaliate untill they stop(which is a pretty big boundry), but I wont "shut them down" like Mychal said. People make jokes, and if you are too high and mighty, as most people who call off color jokes "juvenile" or something to that effect are, then get away and dont be a dick; I crack on everyone equally, even gay and white people(as I am), and even if you were right by me I'de say the same damn juvenile things as I would with my friends who dont care, and if you tryed to "shut me down" I'de shut you down, then after I'm through my friend's will shut you down again, because it's my right to say what I want. On the flipside, rights or not, it isn't smart judge someone's group of friends by your standards then be like"you shouldn't hang with them", because some circles will always seem bad to you, like mine since they make alot of gat cracks....FABULOUS!
    Before I get flamed, I will say that the immatur jokes I make directed with generalizations are jokes, and not like melicious.
     
  13. Mychal

    Mychal Member

    I won't be flaming you for your opinion, doom. I have intolerance only for intolerance.

    When I wrote, it's what they do to us, I was using the imperial 'they', I didn't mean your friends specifically.

    There seems to be movement among young gay kids to accept gay insults and "jokes" from their friends, and this disturbs me. Perhaps it's just that kids are coming out younger these days. And when you're a teenager you are occupied with fitting in. To some extent every teenager seems to compromise himself to fit into a group. Your perspective of the world changes, as does your priorities, when you get older. Hell, your perspective and priorities are always changing.

    Perhaps we are talking about different things. When I read "Joke," I think of my friends saying something like: "What do you call a gay man on roller-blades? Rolaids!" When I think of 'joking around' as friendly banter, I think of my friends saying something like, "Hey Mychal, that hat makes you look like a Pussycat Doll." (which would be hilarious if it were true.) The first joke is an insult aimed at all gay people. It comes from bigotry and stereotypes. It could only be funny if you think gay folks are second class citizens or if you harbor fear and loathing for homosexuals. Jokes based on bigotry are juvenile. "Off-color" usually means risquĊ½, or sexual. A bigoted joke doesn't need to be off color to be offensive.

    "What are three things you cant give a black man?"

    -a black eye, a fat lip, and a job.

    I wouldn't tell that joke to my black friends, hell, I wouldn't tell it to anyone. But I do tell dirty jokes, I got a million of em. But yes, if a so called friend were to tell a bigoted or sexist joke I would "shut them down." By that I mean, I would speak up and make it clear that the "joke" was offensive and definitely not funny. And if you are my friend you might soon find out that I will remind you every time you make a sexist or bigoted comment, weather it's directed at me or not.

    Bigots have a right to hate women, blacks or gays. They have a right to print their vile and distribute it on the internet or the street corner. But you won't see me calling those people my friends.

    Having bad taste in music may be inborn, but it doesn't distinguish a class of people who are murdered just for being who they are. It's not the same as a gay joke. I don't know how the jokes to your handicapped friend relates. If you were joking about his limitations, that might be seen as acknowledgment of those limitations. If you were suggesting that all crips be shipped off to internment camps, your friend might have a hard time laughing at the "joke." I would.

    Don't fool yourself. We still live in a world where people are not treated equaly, so it is impossible to crack on everyone equally. The word honky doesn't have the same weight as faggot or the N. And "owned the Biotch" doesn't have the same weight as "that's so gay."

    Racist and Bigoted jokes may not seem bad when you didn't intend it to be bad. To some extent I agree with you. The word gay can be used with affection or distain. But telling a bigoted joke is like throwing a rock through a window. You can say you didn't do it to hurt any one because you just thought it would be fun. It might not be malicious, but It would be at best inconsiderate. And the person who's window you broke has a right to be mad.
     
  14. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    I found it kinda funny actually, so no, you're wrong. You can find stereotypes funny without necessarily believing in them. You're just laughing at the stereotypes rather than with them. I think if you're mature and you're around mature and familiar company, you can take it as read that yes, obviously stereotypes are generalisations of groups, and that those groups are composed of unique individuals, etc., and not feel unable to then comment on those generalisations, or to observe that someone does adhere to the stereotype or whatever. It doesn't mean you're bigoted, you're just talking about bigotry.

    So what do you call an African rape victim on rollerskates?

    I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make, but I rip on my straight white friends a lot. The jokes usually revolve around "haha, you're totally going to kncok some girl up and end up stuck in a loveless marriage or paying child support forever", and I'll admit they're not that hilarious, but it's kind of what I was talking about above; I'm not saying it because I hate straight people or because I think they're all the same (two views which a lot of gays seem to get away with holding without really being called on them, incidentally), but just because... jeez, I don't even know why I'm explaining this. BECAUSE IT'S FUNNY. No other reason.

    That's, like, the worst analogy ever.

    Just to illustrate one of the holes in it: people tell other people jokes because they think they'll find them funny. No-one throws a rock through a window because they think the owner of the window would think it was really funny.
     
  15. Mychal

    Mychal Member

    SelfControl,

    Thank you for acknowledging my thoughts, and for your considered response.

    Bigots come in all sizes. Just because you're gay yourself doesn't mean you don't hate and fear gay people. We are raised in a homophobic world; taught in many subtle ways, like this example, to hate homosexuality. Even gay people have to figure out how to unlearn that training. The first way to unlearn is to admit.


    Why does this sound like justification?

    We're laughing with you, not at you, no really I mean it.

    I agree, it is possible to talk about bigotry or illustrate bigotry through bigoted jokes. But I wonder why you find it such an effective way of getting your point across. We are talking about bigoted Jokes, not a single conversation, like we are having here. If I posted at this forum everyday, but started my posts with black jokes, or sprinkled my posts with black jokes, and then after a complaint I wrote that I was kidding, I'm trying to laugh at the bigotry not with it. Who would buy it?

    It's not a level playing field because I can tell a joke to a privileged, white dude like: "haha, you're totally going to knock some girl up and end up stuck in a loveless marriage or paying child support forever" And he'll laugh, even if it's true because he will continue to live a privileged life regardless.

    I tell an impoverished, black man a joke like: "what's the most confusing day in Harlem? Father's day." I have discounted the personal struggles he has had to make to keep his family together. Some of the same struggles as the white guy, except the Black man will continue to be impoverished.

    What's so hard to understand about this:
    I call a black man: ******. Ouch!
    A black man calls me: Honky. So what.

    The difference being that for years Honkies would string Niggers up in trees. It is going to be a long time before the playing field is level. And just saying it's so, doesn't make it so. That's Humpty Dumpty's logic.

    The purpose of an analogy is to find how two different things are similar in the hope of finding a better understanding of one. Analogies by definition must be between two things that are different. Pointing out those differences doesn't serve the analogy and sometimes stretches it beyond recognition. But let me give it a shot.

    I was referring to human nature. Children throw rocks though windows. Children are sometimes impulsive, inconsiderate, stupid and mean, just like bigots. A child will do something because he wants to, and then try to find a justification afterward. If a child thinks it's funny to break a window, he will expect everyone else will think it's funny too.

    but just because... jeez, I don't even know why I'm explaining this. BECAUSE BIGOTRY IS JUVENILE. No other reason.
     
  16. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    So you're saying I'm homophobic, and the only way for me to not be is to admit that I am?

    No. Just no.

    Essentially what you seem to be saying is that the context that supports your argument is the only context that matters. I mean, what I was actually saying has nothing to do with any real situation. If two friends greet each other with "hello, you gay ****", "hello you black bastard", what exactly is the problem with that? Isn't it immediately obvious from the context that they're friends? Or do you prefer to believe that, rather than just being able to laugh at bigotry, they must be bigots themselves and, what, secretly hate each other?

    Seriously, I don't think your argument that if a gay person makes a gay joke they're homophobic has any grounding in reality. It's like saying that when black people use the N-word they hate black people. It just doesn't make sense. Reclamation is about taking power back from the bigots. It's no different from the gay community using words like "Queer" to describe themselves. I mean, by your logic, they're doing that because they hate themselves!

    When a gay person makes a gay joke, they're taking the power to make gay jokes away from being the exclusive right of straight people. By this token, I could just as easily argue that, by not supporting this, you're against gay people being allowed to have that power. I'm not going to make that argument though, because it's just as indefensible as yours.
     
  17. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    What, and you never do anything childish for the fun of it? I hope that's not true. I mean, would you consider a show like South Park to be bigoted and hateful?

    I ask because you seem to be arguing bigotry = juvenile, therefore juvenile = bigotry, and that's a pretty fundamental logical fallacy.
     
  18. doom876

    doom876 Member

    I'm with self controll, making a gay/black/whatever joke doesn't mean you hate any of them. Though every so often the gay cracks do annoy me when I'm not in a haha mood, or when it's hot out, which puts me in a not haha mood. Bigotry is bad, not juvenile, it's ignorant and cruel, kids are dumb but innocent, bigotry is not. You made a steriotype right up there, there are plenty of poor white people out there. One last thing, I like making black jokes, accedentally bumped into a black kid today(I carry some heavy books in school), he got pissed and said stuff behind me, told my friend"oops, bumped a black dude, hope I dont get shot", whatever. Fuck if people care, one of my damn best friends was black untill I moved and he didn't bother to keep in contact. I'll make a white people joke, or a black person joke, we rarely string them up now and alot of the racism is gone(not all), and I doubt anyone today was a slave so that is no excuse, White people have to filter what jokes we say around mynoreties because white people skrewed them over? fuck that! Ya know, I didn't pack black people on botes, kill the Indians(they have the most right to complain and they do the least), or make chinese people work on railroads and if someone says lay off I will, if they are nice. I will call white people honkeys, black people niggers(technecly not a racial term anyway), etc...I dont buy into that double standered! The same with men being studs and women sluts, BS!
     
  19. SelfControl

    SelfControl Boned.

    Um, okay, I'd like to distance myself from this a little bit.
     
  20. Night_Owl49

    Night_Owl49 Since 2006

    hahahaha.

    I laughed so hard at this.
     

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