Discussion in 'Mind Games' started by dreebs, Jan 8, 2005.

  1. dreebs

    dreebs Member

    well. what do u think? ur thoughts on freedom please. how free are we really? i don't feel free. what do u think freedom is? how do u get it? what does it feel like? how should ppl who feel trapped, create some freedom for them selves? can u be free and unhappy at the same time? feedback welcomed!
  2. I was free as a bird, that's the way I used to be. But since I met you baby, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE's got its hold on me!
    -Fooled Around and Fell in Love, as sung by Jon Fishman

    [condensed thoughts]
    Well well... I think you can only truely be free if you are completely self-sufficiant. Even then you'll still have to depend on the weather, gravity, and all the other forces of nature that control us. Plus there's love, which makes you its slave. I subscribe to the theory that says in order to be completely emotionally free, you have to have nothing to lose. You'll be depressed as hell, but have no mental bonds.
    [/condensed thoughts]
  3. Soulless||Chaos

    Soulless||Chaos SelfInducedExistence

    I don't feel particularly free either...
    To really be free would be to have no worries, no consequences, and nothing you have to do.... Be able to do only as you please.. :D That sort of freedom though, I doubt will ever exist... :rolleyes:
  4. that kind of freedom would be awful.
  5. NaykidApe

    NaykidApe Bomb the Ban

    America is a place wher they drag you out of bed, shove you on a bus, march you into a building, strap you to a desk, and force you to learn about "Freedom".

    Freedom is a word Americans typically use to start wars, end songs, and sell feminine hygeine products.
  6. Soulless||Chaos

    Soulless||Chaos SelfInducedExistence

  7. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Freedom -- more than anything -- is a state of mind (IMO).
  8. Soulless||Chaos

    Soulless||Chaos SelfInducedExistence

    That is definitely part of it.. :D
  9. NaykidApe

    NaykidApe Bomb the Ban

    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
  10. Professor Jumbo

    Professor Jumbo Mr. Smarty Pants

    Freedom cannot be so cheaply defined. Sure "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" makes a great song lyric, but that's about it. The slaves on the plantations, and the prisoners in Nazi consentration camps had nothing left to lose, would you have called them free?. It is a state of mind in a sense, but there is more to it. We are not brains in vats after all.

    I like what Major_Peacenik says, except the part about being depressed and having nothing to lose.

    I spent this summer living out of a backpack. I could hitch hike to where I wanted to go. I had good gear for camping out. I had friends to make and friends to vist. Food was easy enough to come by. I had and sitll have very little by way of material possession. I had no bills to pay, no rent to make, no boss to please. I had no deadlines to keep, no phone ringing and bugging me, I had no place to go and all the time in the world to get there. Heck, I didn't have or need a watch.
    Though food was easy to get, neither did it fall in my lap. Hitching can be a chore at times too. I got cahsed by big mean dogs, nearly was run over more than once, thought that I would die of dehydration one time. There is hiding from cops, grubbing in stinky dumpsters, miles and miles and miles of walking. Then there is often uncooperative weather. Now I happen to enjoy most of that (except the dehydration, mean dogs, and nearly getting run over).
    The relative lack of material possession was a blessing, not a curse. It meant that I got to take everything with me on my back. I didn't have to think about moving or storage or where to put or what to do with this or that. That was by far the best four months I have ever spent. I intended to do it next summer too.

    That was freedom.

    Currently I am in mid state new york in the middle of nowhere. I am taking care of my grandmother at her house until march. I have no car so I can't leave to go anywhere, and the nearest commercial establishemnt of any kind is 10 miles away. No bars, no movies, no shops, no clubs, not even a gas station, or a stop light to watch (not that I spend lots of time watching stoplights). However, I have no set hours, just need to help grandma when she needs help. I have a computer and and write, read, play music, look at the internet, take pictures outside, and go for walks too my hearts contentment. This too is freedom.

    I have friends who would insist that both of these situations are closer to slavery than they are to freedom. I do not presume to claim that they are wrong. There are situations that I would consided near slavery that others would call freedom.

    The point is that while freedom is a state of mind to an extent, there is a significant aspect of personal definition. If it were solely a state of miind then I would be capable of feeling equally free in any situation. Calling it a state of mind solely has the effect of eliminating it as a non-personal concept. I could go on but I am starting to ramble.
  11. dreebs

    dreebs Member

    So are u saying u can be unhappy and free at the same time?
  12. OSF

    OSF SeƱor ******

    Children of democracy have no expression for the notion.

    In that, we are all equal.
  13. Goatman88

    Goatman88 Member

    i do not believe we can be TOTALLY free in this life. We could come close though.
  14. NaykidApe

    NaykidApe Bomb the Ban

    The ideal form of "having nothing left to lose" is not being attached to anything--realizing we don't actually own anything to begin with. Everything we have is on loan.

    Of course the slaves and concentration camp inmates had something left to lose---Hope. The ones who lost hope were the first ones to die, according to ppl who were there I mean.

    (Man! You could say "Mares eat oats, and does eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy" in here and someone'll take it seriously and find some reason to get upset about it)
  15. Professor Jumbo

    Professor Jumbo Mr. Smarty Pants

    So you're not free until you lose literally everything including hope and self determination and then you die!? Gee I'm not trying to get no your case, but that is a pretty messed up kind of freedom, sounds more like slavery to me. Talk about Orwellian, man.

    And who ever heard of a doe eating oats anyhow, something sure is wrong there j/k.
  16. artful_dodger

    artful_dodger Member

    There are always trade-offs: you trade your time for money, you forgo certain material goods in order to have more time, etc.

    Freedom is being okay with the trades you are making.

    I'd consider myself pretty free. I have obligations -- a home, family, volunteer commitments, work -- but, they are ones that I've chosen, and the ones that I want.
  17. kayy

    kayy Member

    I think the biggest thing about freedom is the mind; we r caught in a web of lies, words, traditions, manipulations and fears and habits...
  18. NaykidApe

    NaykidApe Bomb the Ban

    ^^^^I knew it!!!!

    Do you always ask people questions then answer them yourself? If so I guess you don't need my input. [​IMG]

    To answer your question--if you have faith you don't need hope (now watch, as vague and nebulous as these terms are you're going to come back and tell me exactly what I mean't and try to show me where I'm wrong)

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