Fox "news."

Plato followed and agreed with Socrates. Their philosophy, on how men are best governed, is based on faith in a higher being and that the best and most happiness comes when the individual submits himself to the service of the state (government). On the other hand, Aristotle broke from his teacher Plato and believed in some kind of religion but also thought that the individual was the key to being happy and government (the state) should be instituted under a system of proven facts, things that work in the real world, and science.


I would say that Republicans adhere to Plato and Democrats are more aligned with Aristotle. Why?

Republicans are the religious party. They believe in morals, a higher power, and think if we were all church-going, and more so church-obeying, our problems would be solved or disappear. They are against "big" government but certainly advocate the law-and-order menu (number of people in prison for non-violent drug offenses), setting rules down, and going first for enforcement action (immigration) before any consideration is given to revising a statute. I'm not attacking, agreeing, defending, or supporting any of these positions, just providing my observation here. All things, to include philosophies, can and have been taken to the radical side but it doesn’t mean the basic premise is wrong.

How would Aristotle seem to fall with the Democrats? Jefferson started this with the idea, the thought, that the people should determine what kind and how it’s to be run, a government. Most, to include myself, probably have no clue on how much of a change this was in 1776 to believe, and really, to even put to paper, our belief that the people get to determine what type of government they want and must give their consent to do so. Our founding fathers, starting with Madison, took this point of view with "We the people...." They started with a form of government that was in the best, and under the circumstances, the most “balanced” at the time. Trying to balance the individual, first, with different levels of government. Our federal system is the result of this effort -- enumerated powers to the federal government, sovereignty to a limited degree to the states, and anything generally not otherwise mentioned, left by natural rights, to the individual.

It seems we have a similar mano a mano on the this thread. Although, unlike the great thinkers above, feathers have been ruffled and tempers have flaired.

Who’s the undisputed winner? I can’t tell you that because we’re not even close to a logical answer. I’ll leave it up to Cool Hand Luke’s “Boss” to address the current state of affairs...

Think I’m gonna go play a little G&R Civil War.

 

6

You say this then instantly go off topic LOL

Flags and statues – I could ask you again - Are you denying there is a problem with racism in the US if not what is your argument? If yes what would you put forward as a solution?

As they are connected, I mean why do you think certain flags and statues might be contentious?

But I’m sure you’ll evade by saying its off topic which again will just make me laugh

What would be you defence of statues celebrating confederates that where put up after they had been defeated; I mean why did they even get erected in the first place?

 

The concern here is with propaganda (like Fox etc) – about what people want to portray over what is closer to reality.

Often right wing propaganda likes to claim that ‘the left’ is a complete homogeneous entity in which everyone things the same and acts the same – it allows them to pick out extreme cases and claim that ALL lefies are like that (they try the same trick on other groups Muslims for example)

Of course it only works on the simple minded because under even the slightest scrutiny it falls apart.

They then project this simple mindedness onto others – they claim that ALL lefties believe ALL right wingers are neo-Nazis.

Propaganda like to keep things simple black and white, either or all this all that.

The thing about propaganda it only works on those that do not question it.

 

[quot]In a world where there is ongoing death, disease, hardship, poverty, inequality, environmental degradation and corruption, this is what they're whining about?[/quote]

Well I can walk and chew gum at the SAME time LOL

I hold many opinions on many subjects in my head all the time, most people I know do – are right wingers claiming they can’t?

That they can only hold one subject in your head at any one time?

I'm guessing not but that is exactly what propagandist would want – they don’t want people to think widely and deeply – it is much easier to push a simple message if you concentrate on one phrase or slogan to explain one issue/subject and not go into any detail or deeper explanation.

For example it is much easier to say something is about ‘political correctness’ and keep repeating that, than it is to actually explain what political correctness means or why it’s been applied in this case, because when detail is given and nuance explored the argument falls apart.

 

Political Correctness - is an interesting one, a well-worn trope of right wing propagandists - but what does it actually mean.

I think a lot of right wingers shout it without even thinking about what it means.

I’ve tried to ask right wingers and after a lot of humming and ahhhrings it seems to boil down to right wingers not been able to say off colour or racist things without getting pulled up for it.

To which I’d ask why would people want to make such statements anyway to which I’ve never seem to get a satisfactory answer.

 

Renn

Interesting and I might have agreed with you at some points in Republican history but, are they now? It seems to me that many Trump Republicans have lost their moral compass.

I mean what is ‘moral’ about many in the Republican party that seems to countenance lying and cheating – allowing Trump to remain in power and supporting voter suppression?

 

I'm a center-left Dem and I've gone to Mass all my life. That's exactly why I can't support Rump. A self-centered, narcissistic, "grab 'em by the pussy", uncaring ("open things up, get things rolling again, maybe go to work, go about your lives") [so I can look good politically] handling of the Covid-19 pandemic, caging of people looking for political asylum & a better life, separation of kids from their parents for extended periods of time, lying C-O-N-S-T-A-N-T-L-Y, obstructing justice and blocking every attempt to uncover the truth about Russian interference in our U.S. elections, ignoring the Constitution's outlines of a 3-branch, co-equal, checks-and -balances system of government, firing anyone who questions him or disagrees with him - or tries to investigate his questionable actions and words - to the detriment of our country, etc. etc. etc.

REPUBLICANS religious??? And support Rump???? Just how "Christ-like" does Rump look to anyone??? Does the above paragraph sound at all like Jesus???

Anyone - including myself - who looks to another human being as their moral compass - is falling far short if you claim to be "religious." God should be our moral compass.

Let's see now ……………. who did Jesus hang around with & care for? Kings, queens, emperors, dictators, high society, those who "fawned" over Him, and people who could help Him politically??? N-O-O-O-O …………. it was the poor, the widows, the sick, the elderly, the orphans, the hungry, the homeless, ----------- the outcasts in society. And what was it that He taught again …………………….

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people ……….. that you do unto Me."

So ignoring the needs of the "least of His people" is ignoring God Himself.

Now slash that Social Security, slash that Medicare, slash that Medicaid, slash unemployment benefits, slash health care, slash workers' rights, slash environmental protections for a dirtier world, slash consumer protections and OSHA ………...and by ALL MEANS ………………….

SLASH the TAX RATES FOR THE VERY RICHEST …………………. THE M-O-S-T.

 

[/QUOTE]
The above post is in response to these quotes - and Renn calling the Republican party "the religious party."

 

Yeah, try telling that to all the self-identified leftists who hang out on here

 

"You can't paint the right with such a wide brush"

also

"All leftists are the same"

 

Not really. Just taking your weak argument and throwing it right back at you.

We can significantly reduce racism by killing collectivist ideas. Racism is the ugliest form of collectivism.

Why do you think tearing down statues will end racism?
Besides, why do you wanna tear down statues when there are kids starving in Djibouti?

 

They are't "the" Left, just a part of it.

 

I disagree with your characterization of the Republican Party of today. The Evangelical wing is religious, but in a Pharisaical way--hypocrites wearing Christianity on their sleeves, while violating its most basic principles of love for neighbor. Likewise, they make a thing about law and order while supporting a President who works assiduously to undermine the rule of law by packing the courts and claiming to be a above it.

 

A “left” you claim doesn’t exist

 

6

What do you think it is and why is it weak?

LOL what the hell does that even mean? Can you explain it any rational way?

It can be a step, symbols of a regime being taken away indicate a change, statues of George III where pulled down at the beginning of the American war of independence, And many Americans applauded the pulling down of statues to Lenin and Marx after the fall of the Soviet Union.

We can only hope things can get better

LOL well as I said I can walk and chew gum, been aware of one issue does not mean you can’t be aware of others.

 

Oh, I don't claim that at all. I just claim that the Left isn't an entity or a monolith that engages in consolidated action. The left is an abstraction denoting "the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life." left | Definition & Facts.

 

This means communism, apparently...

 

Excellent posts by those who see the truth. Will not change the cult members "beliefs" one iota. The " left" approves.

 

What makes you think your argument is strong

The idea of racism, is to hate or dislike a person not for the content of their individual character, but as a collectivist generalization of their skin color or ethnicity

if you still haven’t figured out that racism is a form of collectivism, then there’s nothing I can do to help you out.

Here’s a dime, buy yourself a clue.

it starts with tearing down a confederate statue. Then it goes to Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, and all the founding fathers. You give an inch they take a mile.



LOL well as I said I can walk and chew gum, been aware of one issue does not mean you can’t be aware of others.[/QUOTE]
Well as long as I can walk and chew gum, I too can discuss concerns and problems with renaming and rewriting history. While being aware of other issues going on. A few posts ago you were rambling about poverty and environmental degradation to subvert the argument

 

Actually... You started that.