Forget Building A Wall....bring The Wall Home.

You didn't make an assertion involving any sort of historical context, time frame, native groups or European groups, or any instances which could possibly back up your claims.

You simply made a blanket claim which contradicts pretty much all accepted history since Andrew Jackson era revisionism. If you make a claim without providing a single piece of evidence, I don't require evidence to refute it.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I did. And it's what people do when they compress centuries of history into "Europeans came and killed all the indians" or worse "white people want to kill everybody else" (ludicrous when you consider how few there are globally).

To the thread, the main reason I'm not against a wall on the US border is because I have been hearing about the problems and horrors on the Mexican/US border for nearly my entire life. Clearly every soft strategy has failed, so I expect the medieval solution is overdue. I don't like it any more than India when they had to build a barrier on their border with Pakistan.

 

in what way do they have anything to do with christ beyond abusing the name?
i neither love nor hate the name as much as you seem to.
but i don't think we live in a good time for confusing facts with satyre.

anyone who uses their own beliefs, whatever they are, as an excuse to cause harm, has little or no understanding of the intentions of their beleifs, nor of any other.
most fanatics could really give a shit less about whatever belief's name they take in vain by identifying themselves with it.

i'm not saying that i hold chistianity or any belief totally blameless either,
but these are more, or at least as much, a symptom then a basis

and for those who wish to cause harm, or are blinded by the reflex to want to hurt back others they percieve as having caused harm,
one excuse is as good as another, whether they call it a belief, an ideology, or anything else.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about hating Christians. If people want to believe all that, that's up to them.

The bottom line is this, these psychopaths who have somehow managed to to get elected into positions of power believe they are doing the work of God.

That's all I'm saying, I don't know why you seem to want to turn this into a fucking argument.

 

But India is not a christian nation, while America, especially the southerners prides itself on being one.

So Jesus states in the bible that you have to love your neighbor and that is the most important commandment. He also states that rich people will find it as easy to get through to heaven than a camel can through the eyes of a needle. He had also stated to renounce all riches and give them to the poor.

So it is hard to understand why southern Americans who pride on their religiousness and christianity, elected a billionaire rogue like trump to build a wall next to mexico and prevent them from coming up. Most mexicans I know do manual labour which most vain americans despise,and even contribute substantially to the american gdp.

Perhaps mexican labour might enable america to compete with the chinese.

 

Perhaps? We already have nicer lawns than the Chinese. We also have equally grossly underpaid fruit pickers.

 

If you look at the election map, Trump won many states that weren't "southern" at all. So why do they get a special lament from you? Probably the same reason I used to bag on southerners, before I moved to Atlanta. Being from California I fully expected to see the KKK all over the place, cops beating black people in the streets, the constant twang of southern racists, cross burnings and lynchings every weekend. None of that came to pass and I realized I was fully bigoted in my expectations. When I lived in upstate New York it seemed like there was a catholic church on every corner, even Schenectady had more of them than I had ever seen in a single city. So I don't get your assignment of Christians as a southern phenomenon, heck we even had them in San Rafael when I was growing up. And really, you're going to use that "jobs Americans won't do" crap on me? Most of the Americans who have been displaced from those kinds of jobs were black, especially in the construction trades. I guarantee you they weren't too lazy to work, but they can't compete against people willing to work illegally, under the table for $4 an hour, nobody can. American teenagers are also hard hit by this, but I don't "blame" the Mexicans. I blame corporate greed.

It's not the Americans who are responsible for this mess, it's the tiny portion of them that control all of the wealth. So ranting against Americans in general is really ludicrous. Which is why I don't understand these hard leftist who are attacking ordinary people who are struggling to live in the first place. Why aren't they going after the rich bastards in their gated communities? Why do they attack common people who have zero power to change anything. It's like nobody learned any lessons form Fight Club. MOST of the issues we have in the US are class-based. And the upper class wants to keep it that way, so they engineer ways for the rest of us commoners to focus hate on each other, instead of them. You railing against southerners is a PRIME example of this kind of programming. Congratulations, you're part of the problem and didn't even know it. You hate on a whole swath of people you barely know, because somebody taught you to.

As for Christ, his gig was all about people not taking advantage of each other. This can be accomplished many ways and with digital efficiency these days. Calling people names, spreading hate and lies about them, those are not Christian tenets. As far as India is concerned, I fail to see your point. They built that barrier because Pakistanis were routinely invading and attacking small villages. When the barrier went up, it stopped. It wasn't a religious issue, it was to protect the people of their nation. Sometimes negotiating with some far off government doesn't impact localized problems.

 

Yeah, but America has a major disadvantage in Trump which the chinese do not have. And the repercussions of this huge disadvantage will tell as time passes.

 

Back to the wall. The wall per se won't solve the problem. That "Great Wall of India" you mention is manned by some 70,000 armed border guards. The "wall" is actually a fence that folks with wire cutters could easily get through if it weren't heavily patrolled. And some folks get through it easily just by going out their doors, since their houses are situated astride the "wall. The billion dollar project was considered necessary, because the two countries are at war--unlike the U.S. and Mexico (but give Trump time!). Large areas are unfenceable because of the terrain, and people are kept out of those by border patrols. The situation in the United States is similar; poor soil, flood planes, sand dunes, etc., would make a wall (or fence) hard to build and maintain--and where there's a will, there's a way. People will find a way to go over it, under it, or cut through it in the absence of formidable patrolling. The real question is how much of our resources we want to expend on the thing, since Mexico ain't paying for it. (the border tax Trump talks about would be paid for by Americans and bad for business. Republicans are penny pinchers when it comes to social programs, but the sky seems to be the limit when it comes to this boondoggle. But it might provide some jobs in fence building and border patrol for Trump to crow about. We could better provide those with useful infrastructure spending.

 

no argument. thanks for the clarification.
don't see where anything i said put words in your mouth.
if that's because i've reached the age of growing out of touch with what people expect each other to infer, then i guess that is what that is.

 

Take another look at the part of your dialogue which I quoted where you inferred that I hated Christians.

 

only i didn't. i simply observered that you EXPRESSED the familiar love-hate relationship, simultaniously praising and objecting to their dominance, as, presumably, a form of satyre.

like so many people who buy into their claim to own or have created god itself, rather then being neigher more nor less then any other religious belief.

 

Oh FFS. Fine. You didn't infer anything. Case closed. Moving on.

 

I agree with the fact that our troops should all be brought home unless they're given the green light to really do their job. Otherwise it makes no sense to promote our style of democracy, and police their country. Democracy isn't for everybody. It's hard to get us in the West to believe that.

As far as the wall goes..... If you bring our troops home or not (then use the national guard along with border patrol) to supervise prisoners and illegal aliens to build the wall. After the illegals finish they're allowed to stay in the US, or if they're given citizenship, they then go to the back of the line. Problem solved. BOOM!

 

As do insensitive remarks about our military.

 

Trump has a pretty good/creative idea for building a wall out of solar panels, but I still think my OP trump's his.

 

I am certain that everyone on this board will have a better option to spend the money on than building The Wall. I would like to see a new train tunnel for commuters to New York's Penn Station.

Illegal immigration from Central America is yesterdays problem, the border jumpers are not arriving in anything close to previous numbers.

 

there is no useful purpose accomplished, by the obstruction of movement, of unarmed and otherwise law abiding civilians, across any border, at any point, in any direction, between any adjacent nations, anywhere on this, or any other sapiently inhabited world in any solar system in any galaxy in any universe.

it may be demographically useful, or at least entertaining, to observe and keep track of such crossings perhaps, but no security function is served by obstructing it.
none what so ever. and no honest evidence exists to the contrary.

if population is a concern, the universal lowering of fertility, across the board, without bias or exception, is the only logical solution to that.
(and i mean fertility, not libedo, nor are increased levels of violent conflict a long term solution, even if they were a moral one, which they are not)

total (world human) population is a factor in many adverse conditions. barriers to the free flow of unarmed and otherwise law abiding civilians, does nothing to address them.
neither are the demographics of race, religion gender preference, ideology, et al.

 

Maybe there is some hope. At least till the next Pres elect.