Forest Service Purchases Tasers

I found this article this morning. Figured I'd post because it ultimately most likely relates to us.......................... :
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> Federal Agencies Continue to Show Growth Opportunities
> September 19, 2007: 07:30 AM EST
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> SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Sept. 19, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- TASER International, Inc. (Nasdaq:TASR), a market leader in advanced electronic control devices, today announced that it received an order from the United States Forest Service for 700 TASER(r) X26 electronic control devices and related accessories.
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> "We are excited about this new additional federal agency purchasing TASER technology to protect life," said Tom Smith, Chairman and Founder of TASER international. "Traditionally, we have focused law enforcement sales at the local and state level, but we are now seeing acceptance of TASER technology at various federal law enforcement agencies."
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> "We have seen a continual marked increase in TASER technology purchases at the federal level following our initial U.S. military approval of a five-year indefinite delivery indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contract. We are proud that law enforcement within the Departments of Defense, Justice, Homeland Security, Interior, and Agriculture are now relying on TASER devices to protect life."
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> The order was placed with Aardvark Tactical, Inc. of Azusa, CA, TASER International's GSA distributor to the federal government.
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> This order is anticipated to ship between the third and fourth quarter, 2007.

 

well , we can negotiate any permit to exclude the taser things as cruel . they just as well shoot to kill if things are altogether that serious . death is at least beyond cruel .

 

Aside from the obvious - most law enforcement doesn't have the common sense not to use them unnecessarily- And you don't seem to have any grasp on the subject. With forest service armed with tasers against Rainbows (who else? The wild animals in the forest?), we may be able to kiss Gatherings goodbye all together in the near future. Toss one more lit match into the tinder-box and see what happens... Just another weapon to be used against our right to peacefully assemble. Just another weapon in the church. Just another way for law enforcement folk who already may have a bad attitude or a bad day, or mental issues, or be AFRAID of us, to open a huge and ugly can of worms in a fit of anger or fear...

At a Rainbow Gathering, law enforcement, armed and in uniform, should be doing pretty much NOTHING.

 

Do Police Use Tasers Too Often?
Recent Incidents Raise Questions About Risks, Abuse
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN,
ABC News
Posted: 2007-09-22 21:27:38
Filed Under: Law News, Nation News
(Sept. 21, 2007) -- Two incidents this week in which police used Tasers to subdue nonviolent suspects have thrust the popular stun gun into the spotlight again and raised new questions about the device's use and potential misuse by law enforcement officials.
Monday, police in California shocked a 15-year-old autistic boy with a Taser. Two days later, during a speech by Sen. John Kerry , D-Mass., at the University of Florida, officers Tasered a 21-year-old student who refused to stop asking the senator questions.

The weapon -- used by some 11,500 police agencies in more than 44 countries, according to its manufacturer, Taser International -- has been criticized by civil rights groups for years. They have questioned Taser's status as a "nonlethal weapon" by pointing to incidents in which people who have been stunned later died.

While neither of the two suspects in this week's incidents died or were seriously injured, the cases have focused attention on the increasing use of Tasers by police and the widely varying ways that use is regulated.

Who can be shocked, under what circumstances, for how long, and how many times varies from state to state and department to department, a fact that critics say allows for abuse. Taser International, which offers no guidelines on use of the weapons, says this allows police agencies to tailor their use according to local guidelines and case-specific needs.

Autistic Boy Tasered

While on the face of it, shocking a 15-year-old autistic boy with 50,000 volts of electricity for "acting suspiciously" but nonviolently might seem over the top, the Orange County (Calif.) Sheriff's Department maintains the device was used for the boy's own good.

"The use of the Taser was definitely justified," Jim Amormino, a sheriff's department spokesman told ABC NEWS.com. "The deputy had two seconds of contact with the suspect before he started screaming and running into traffic."

"If he hadn't been Tasered, he could easily have been killed by a car. The suspect, the officers, drivers on the road and pedestrians all could have been at risk if the suspect continued into traffic," he said.

Many Taser incidents might well have otherwise required the use of lethal force, and they've thus saved lives, according to Richard Jerome, a lawyer and former Justice Department official who now consults on police accountability.

"Clearly, Tasers are a important tool for law enforcement," Jerome said. "They're used by police departments to lower the incidence of more serious use of force."

In the other incident this week, University of Florida President J. Bernard Machen Tuesday called the Tasering and arrest of student Andrew Meyer "regretful" and launched a university inquiry, calling on the state police to investigate.

Monday officers took down Meyer before a roomful of people after the college senior grabbed a microphone and asked Kerry a series of questions, including whether he'd been a member of Yale's secret society Skull and Bones .

After Meyer was on the ground and surrounded by officers, he is a heard to say, on a widely circulated video of the incident, "Don't Tase me bro!"

In another filmed incident that went viral on the Internet this week, an Ohio woman was Tasered earlier this month multiple times, including while handcuffed and seated in the back of a police cruiser.

Continuum of Force

Heidi Gill, 38, said she feared for her life when Police Officer Rich Kovach Tasered her over and over again after a bar argument in Warren, Ohio. "I didn't think I was going to make it out of there. I just wanted this pain to stop. This electrocuting and Tasering. ? I didn't know what Tasering even was," Gill said.

Kovach was placed on paid leave pending an investigation.

Each of these incidents demonstrates what police officers already know: Interactions between the police and suspects can be volatile and require the officer to quickly sum up a situation.



Police departments each develop their own "use of force continuums," a series of escalating steps that officers employ to determine when and how much force should be deployed against a suspect.

"Some departments put Tasers pretty high on their force continuum, some pretty low down at the level of pepper spray," said Mona Cadena, the deputy director of Amnesty International's western region.

"Cops, of course, will come into contact with violent individuals and have to respond, but they should always use the minimum … force for the threat that is posed. The question out there is: Is it appropriate to use a Taser on a student who is just being a nuisance, or on senior citizens or children or pregnant women."

Amnesty International has been tracking Taser use in the United States since 2001 and says it is difficult to know the medical risks involved because little independent research has been done. It is also difficult to know whether Tasers are being misused because there is no national standard for keeping track of their use.

Multiple Shocks

"Cops have to register firearms and record every time they discharge them. That information then goes into a national database, but there is nothing like that for Tasers. We're concerned with use and reporting and a lack of regulation," she said.

Taser International said it has created a weapon that when used properly can safely and effectively subdue suspects. Moreover, every weapon it produces, unlike, say, a billy club, electronically registers the time, date and duration of a shock.

Recent incidents, including the April 2006 death of a 56-year-old, wheelchair-bound Florida woman who was Tasered 10 times and later died, stirred controversy for the company. However, the manufacturer says it is the police who should be taking the heat.

"We don't teach use of force techniques. We train the trainers and give them as much information as possible to use it safely," said Steve Tuttle, spokesman for Taser International. "Every agency is going to use it differently, based on their own use-of-force guidelines. Sometimes it will be used against people passively resisting, other times against more active resistance," he said.

Tuttle said that in some cases multiple shocks are necessary and can be done safely.

"Multiple applications have good outcomes in arresting someone safely. We've shown that multiple applications are not dangerous. We don't limit the number of bullets in a gun," he said.

Tuttle said it was frustrating that every controversial use has reporters focusing on the company instead of the agencies using the weapon. Gun manufacturers are not called to comment every time cops misuse their firearms, he said.

"The media never reports on all the planes that land safely. But thousands of Tasers are used safely every day. Every Taser has a computer chip that records the time, date and length of duration."

Taser-Related Deaths

No federal agency keeps track of injuries or deaths related to Taser usage. Amnesty International claims that since 2001 it has registered 270 "Taser-related deaths," or incidents in which a Taser was used prior to a suspect's death "but not deemed the primary cause of death by a coroner or medical examiner."

Amnesty International has recorded only seven cases in which a medical professional directly linked a Taser to death.

"In 2004, there were 48 related deaths. In 2005, there were 65 related deaths. That's a 27 percent increase," said Amnesty's Mona Cadena. "More cops using more Tasers equals more deaths. We have to ask ourselves: Is the Taser really nonlethal?"

Taser has its own figures. In the 54 wrongful death cases brought against the company, it has won every single one.

"We're 54 and 0 in wrongful deaths cases. In a courtroom sound bites don't count. We have time to debunk the junk science and demonstrate the safety of our product," Tuttle said.

In many Taser-related deaths, the victims were using drugs, were overweight and in an already excitable state some doctors call "excited delirium."

 

OK, whatever. I can only judge based on my research and experience, which is probably far more than your ordinary person. I FIRMLY restate that most law enforcement does not have the common sense to not use them unnecessarily. (Are you a cop?) Yea, ok, so there are poachers (mostly nonviolent excpet towards the game), Hunters fall under that same catagory. If a "hunter" is different from a "poacher" it's only because a hunter is doing it legally. So if they are legal, why need tasers to use against them? Smugglers? In the national forest? What are they smuggling there, drugs to the squirrels? Squatters? Would these be homeless folks? Rainbows? Ok, so the whole world is a criminal place and there is always somebody doing something wrong, so we should have lots of weapons in the hands of people who mostly have no business with a weapon in order to keep us ALL safe from all those dangerous hunters and smugglers and squatters that are so dangerous... But WHO will keep us safe from a cowboy cop/military wanna-be with only possibly a GED and 4 hours of training (maybe), sent to the woods to chase off a bunch of Rainbows excercising their LEGAL rights to gather on public land? Because we all know how dangerous Rainbows are...

Wouldn't you rather KNOW if there is a possibility that you might be walking into a world of hurt (physical pain) by attempting to attend a Gathering, or would you rather go completely ignorant and unprepared for this possibility?

 

just ask the wildranbo bro who got it in the back in arkansas ... oh ya , he defied authority by walking away . the babylon beast has a sting .

 

Just recently (week of 20 Sep 07) The USFS announced the purchase of 700 tasers.

I could go on and on as to the motives, but I think a graphic will save space (grin)
The explanation involves a virus heh

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1230/1426386608_eb06160280_o.jpg

see all of Stans exploits here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12461951@N03/

 

electrocute sorrow

 

May I ask how tasers are going to protect forest service personel against someone with a weapon? The smuggler/poacher could shoot the fs before fs was even close enough to shoot the taser, even with the little wire devise, which only extends taser range by like 50 ft or so.

Also, you are not giving your argument any creedence by resorting to personal attacks, regardless of whether the attack has an apology attached or not.

Have you been to a Rainbow Gathering? Have you had your life threatened by fs leos for something as silly as singing a song? My hubby has & I'm sure glad that the leos weren't armed with tasers then cuz they would have shot my hubby with the taser just because they could. Just a month or so ago, the fs leos beat the legs of a crippled brother because they wanted the brother to walk without his crutches, a feat the brother was not capable of...& I know I don't want people who beat crippled folks to be running around with a weapon catagorized as 'non-lethal', especially since I know that when someone accidently dies from the 'non-lethal' weapon, it's the taser company that deals with the court battle...

 

OH, MY appologies to those who would rather remain ignorant to the possibilities! So SORRY to force you to think about unpleasant things that you don't want to. Far easier to place an "idiot" lable on someone rather than take into consideration the truths presented here. I assume you would rather go to a Rainbow Gathering totally un-educated. In fact I'll assume you would rather go thru LIFE with your eyes closed. Tossing the "idiot" lable around is a very good indicator. And that is fine too, as perhaps you will end up being one of the unlucky victims due to your lack of caring. Karma works.

I believe it is quite possible that WE (Rainbows) may have a real serious problem here. Only time will tell, guess we will see what happens at the next National. But, rather than playing the "you're an idiot" song, we should be working together and trying to figure out a good way to deal with this possibility should it become a BIG issue.

 

SMOOJE -
Sorry, but you're just not that familiar with the situation. These tasers were purchased for one reason and one reason only. We know it and they know it, whether you choose to research it or not.

 

For what ever reason they purchased the tasers for is not important.

The FS has already brought ASSAULT WEAPONS into the temple, they patrol the gathering like they are in the middle east, with an itchy trigger finger.

They have assaulted members of the family for no reason at all, additionally they have imprisoned or fined a great many of them.

They harass family coming to and from the events with road blocks and searches.

They have gone against their word many times. They can not be trusted.

It should not be surprised that they would now have tasers ....all the other enforcers have them, have for years. There are many more weapons available for them to call upon and most likely they will do so in the future.

Clashes with the FS will happen as they have before, people will get hurt that is a given.

This is only the start of things to come. The beast wants to keep us suppressed and under control.....It will do All that it can to obtain that.

This is a fight for OUR RIGHTS ....it is not going to be an easy one ....they never are.

 

I would not say that "Rainbows" would be exempt from taser use but the forestry service has had to take on the roll of law enforcement in recent years. DUI through parks and waterways, drug labs, poachers, drug smugglers using NFS lands for easier routes, and yes even appose those who they feel (right or wrong) dont obey direct orders.

As for the GED and 4 hours. I dont know what state you live in but most states and especailly at federal lands require a degree and academy training for a park ranger. Some require more than one degree.

http://www.parks.wa.gov/jobs/rit_career.asp

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=1015

I dont see a GED and 4 hours there in the description.

As for abuse of powers, hell yes its done alot but again that is like saying all Rainbows are jobless drug heads that thrive off of others. Its simply not true and unfair to generalize.

Is a tase the answere for a person who peacefully sites there but refuses to move? Not in my opinion. It is supposed to be used instead of leathal force. Leathal force should not be a thought to make a person simply move of leave. Leathal force should only be needed to protect life of the inocent. Now if your blocking the road and an ambulance needed through to save a life I would think you should be shot dead if you refused to move.

Touchy issue indeed that a person may wish to use the device for other than it was intended. Maybe we should not seek the block or ban of its use but rather stiffer requirements for its use?

 

State or even Nation Park rangers are different then Forest Service Law Enforcement Officers.
-Applicants must have a bachelor's degree or 1 year of experience in criminal law enforcement or related professions. Then complete one year of training.
http://www.fs.fed.us/lei/

 

what kind of training do we need ? how about insenitivity school ... first you start out licking batteries until that ain't no bother , step it up to a cattle prod in the ass , then get so you can hold on all smiley to an electric fence - piss on it if you want . then the high wire act .... ha!

 

My concern is that there are always confrontations. The officers always have guns. But since Rainbows are a peaceful bunch, they don't start using their weapons because that would be murder. They hesitate to use clubs because they are so severely outnumbered. But what is to prevent them from using tasers? I think that they will use them on Rainbows and that could cause an escalating disaster that could turn into real guns pretty quickly. People could die.
If they want to use the weapons against non-rainbow law breakers then fine. But there gonna bring them to gatherings as well and that's not fine, as I said before that could make a bad situation worse. If they had tasers at the roadblock in Colorado two years ago, they would have used them and violence would not have been avoided.

 

some carried paintball guns filled with "pepper balls" this year.... they could shoot you from a distance if they wanted to.

next year, keep your distance.... tazers dont reach that far.

 

Far as training and education goes, I was speaking about STATE POLICE in WV. Which means that all leo's have different "training", depending on who and what branch and where. There is no standard for training as far as leo's in general go. Does anyone know if the forest service leo's are overseen by any organization other than their own? Or do they work like the state police - only overseeing each other. And do they also work under "Homeland Security" like State Police do? Pretty sure they do.

I can forsee something horrible and I really hope I'm wrong. And I have been to many gatherings so I know how things happen first-hand. So this question is for those who also know how it works. Yes, what if the leos get SCARED? What if there is a leo who is way too excitable? We've all seen some of this at previous gatherings. I'm CERTAIN that the leos with guns have been given strict orders NOT to use them unless it's a matter of life and death! Guns are pretty notorious for being final. Everybody including your 4 year old knows that guns can kill. Now, give them tasers. Tasers are in a bit different catagory and the human mind does not completely HAVE a catagory for them yet. A NEW tool for the cops to either use or not, at their discretion. Just because they are TOLD to use them in place of deadly force.... That COULD be an invitation to use them when a gun would not be appropriate.

I KNOW that there are A LOT of VETERANS who attend Rainbow Gatherings. I KNOW that there are a lot of vets with issues like PTSD and others... Suppose some of the cops DID go off into warrior mode using (the more acceptable) tasers? The scenario that comes to mind is NOT a pretty picture. Tasers COULD be a perfect tool to create an environment where DEADLY FORCE becomes acceptable, where it was NOT before... And WHO is going to train those leos in PEACEFUL conflict resolution? They are NOT there to resolve conflict PEACEFULLY. They will tell you THAT is what the courts are for, they are just "doing their jobs" by enforcing "laws" however their "boss" tells them to. What do you suppose COULD happen in a crowd of a few hundred or thousand Rainbows if the cops, FS or others, get too forceful with their tasers?

 

I know i'm being harsh, and I don't care. you are an idiot. You're rhetoric is what's wrong with the world, you are a prime example of why we are falling apart at the seams, you sicken me. with people like you around, the transition into slavery will likely be efficient and effortless.

 

seems if spring council initiates a forest use agreement , they might negotiate any such 'no guns in the church' condition . please .