Fighting the Same Old Battle

A long time ago I accepted the fact that somebody else's sex life was none of my business, unless they asked my opinion (unlikely). In exchange for my tolerance, I expected other people to not care how I handled sexual things, as long as my actions had no consequences for non-consenting adults. That deal appeared to have no downside for adults. Somehow I got the impression that my approach to this subject had become widely accepted, except in the conservative christian crowd.

That's why I was surprised when I joined here earlier this year and saw what goes on in the L&S forums. The conservative criticism, negative labels, and stereotyping is often more in line with what I would expect to hear from my parents' generation. But it is coming from people young enough to be my kids, in some cases. I don't get that. I thought that young people were always more liberal and open-minded than their parents, for the last few generations at least. And this online group is likely to be much more socially liberal than the US national average.

Clearly, there is a fundamental problem under the surface. Why are we still fighting this same battle all these years later? Where is this judgmental resurgence coming from? What is it going to take to get past this issue and move on?

 

I have been surprised both by the open-ness and the utter closeminded, dark age thinking of young people on here.

Some are very progressive, while others are downright neolithic in thier thoughts on sex. This will never change.

I dont think the majority of the people here are close minded though - I experienced exactly the opposite of you, finding this forum (L&S specifically) to be almost universally open and accepting of my quirks and making it far easier for me to accept and feel OK about them than I did before...

 

These days people are very insecure, very distracted, very melodramatic, and frankly, very very dumb.
There's not nearly enough introspection or thinking in general, and people attack others out of their own insecurities. I am thinking of one particular board member that would be a perfect example, but I don't want to post his name, as that may constitute as flaming or rousing or something, so PM if you're that curious =P

 

You may be right. For me, the prudes have been more noticeable probably because I wasn't expecting to encounter them. That makes them stand out in the crowd.

I also know multiple former members here who stopped posting here because of criticism from social conservatives. Sometimes it only takes a few harsh words to turn a good online experience into an unpleasant one.

 

Hey NDY, I'm with you! Matter of fact I'm just hanging on. Part of the problem is that people are voicing views very different from those of 'hip' mentality. My grandad, who keeps up with some of our subjects (I even let him write some replies in my name) was a real hippy in the 60s, then settled down a bit, but still is as open as the sky, never judgemental unless someone is gettimg hurt, and says the most difficulty with these forums that he has is keeping from getting mad at some of the writers. Me too. Every time I read "that sounds gay," I get angry. What if it does; the lake "looks like sky blue," should be no less controversial. Women making judgements like , "I'd make a guy get circumcised before I'd start living with him." Huh? Guys saying the same about women who don't shave their pubes. Young guys worrying about their dick size are driving us crazy. People post beautiful pictures of themselves in the erotic section, then find them reposted on porn sites. Didn't used to be this way, but its getting nasty. Your conclusions about sex should apply to every topic - and be mandatory reading. But this is the internet! We don't want rules. Shouldn't need rules. Free flow of thought without criticism!! Disagreement is good. Ridicule is awful. Bah! I haven't said anything new, have I? But I feel better. And welcome NotDeadYet. Stay with us for a while. Maybe it'll get better.

 

some people who post in there were raised by the people from that uptight generation and never learned to think outside the box for themselves....

many people claim to be open minded but really they're only open to what they believe is right...

judging those who judge makes you no better.

 

I wonder how many people think about posting a thought here, then think to themselves, "hell, if I want to open myself up to that much criticism, I'll just talk to my relatives".

Maybe we're entering a cycle of social oscillation where every generation is going to want to be the opposite of the one before it.

Thank you. I think I will. :cheers2:

That is a constant temptation. It is hard to argue with people without getting down on their level, which is never good.

 

I'm one of those people who used to post more often, but quickly got tired of the narrow-minded negativity I encountered in the Love & Sex section. I only log on about once a week now, but got an e-mail tonight from NDY saying I should check out this thread.

For me, it is no fun to participate in a sex-oriented forum where some people get into negative labels and judgments. Why even bother? Dealing with negative crap here isn't a relaxing escape from my work, which is what I want.

I would expect to need a thicker skin if I were debating politics or something similarly divisive, but this is sex, the world's most fun subject. If everything about it isn't fun, you aren't doing it right! And if you disagree with something that goes on between two or more consenting adults, it is so easy to just say nothing, or simply, politely say that you don't agree. Why the animosity? What is that going to accomplish?

I really wish we could have some kind of a forum section where only positive discussion of sexual topics was allowed. Kind of like the Sanctuary section of the Religion Forum, where only Christians are allowed to post. Prudes and traditionalists keep out! I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one to support it.

Love and peace,
Karen

 

Ahhh, The power of denial

One of the strongest forces in the human psyche me thinks

Not just on internet forums, but in real life, does my head in.

Morality means shit in the end, its just too easy to hide anything not mainstream, and hide it from those closest to you is often easiest

 

Denial? I'm not following.

 

does that still fall under free speech?

or would it have an army of guards kicking anyone who doesn't agree

gotta take the good with the bad, of anyone i would think you'd know that.

 

I think this sticky post from Sanctuary answers your question:

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=237087&f=467

 

mmm nope, don't think it does....


i love how everyone cries about free speech until they hear something they don't agree with.

the fact of the matter is..JUST like random thoughts (which skip has posted a thread recently saying the exact same thing I have always maintained)

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=370344&f=51

if you dont like it, dont read it...its quite simple.

 

This is one of the other 500, not RT.

 

I'm going to agree with Mary here, I like to think myself open minded when it comes to sex, but even I have read things on here that made my stomach turn and me post in outrage.

If you don't like what someone has posted make use out of your ignore list and continue as if it never happened, abdoning the forum gives them more power, as they have successfully chased you out.

 

I don't want to spend too much time on Karen's subforum idea, which I think has little or no chance of happening. I'm still trying to understand why a group of people (not just 2 or 3) would go to a forum with a name like "Real Kinky" and try to chase away the people who have an interest in those things. I don't smoke weed, but I don't go into the Stoner's Lounge and call them names. I don't care what they smoke. The word is respect.

* * *

So if it is judgmental to call someone judgmental, what is a truly open-minded person supposed to do? Have no opinions about verbal mistreatment?

 

yes

BUT

just like rt, the same rules apply, you don't like it- you know where the door is.

 

No. Every forum section has its own guidlines posted in the sticky threads at the top. RT has fewer rules enforced than any other forum.

 

yet i rarely see any of these supposed "rules" enforced elsewhere

 

It all depends on the moderator. You won't find any sexual posts in the nudism forum, any posts from guys in the lesbian forum, or anti-christian posts in the sanctuary forum, because they get deleted right away. I've also seen Aristartle give a lot of firm guidance to members in the politics forum. I'm sure it is hard to find qualified people who are willing to spend a lot of time moderating here for free. It can't be an easy job.

Well, enough about that. The bottom line is, with over 500 forums here, there should be enough room to have one place where sexually liberal people don't have to be on the defensive; a place where the control freaks and traditionalists and religious conservatives feel unwelcome. There should be a way to make that happen. I just don't know at this point what it is.

The larger issue goes well beyond Hip Forums, so I don't want to focus too much on what's going on here. It is important in society at large that people learn to respect the views and lifestyles of others.

The problem here matches what I see in real life. I recently lost a friend (the only one I had under 30) because I simply refused to criticize a public figure who did something controversial that did not harm anyone. There was no real discussion about it. He just cut me off.

In this thread, I've already gotten a negative rep vote from a younger person who is not participating in the discussion. These people don't care to debate anything. They just want to win, and they want those with other opinions to shut up.

For a few years, I thought it best to ignore this problem and hope it would go away, thinking that I didn't want these rude, mean-spirited people for friends anyway. That isn't going to work. There's too many of them, and the situation is not getting any better.

I'd like to hear from somebody under thirty who is not socially intolerant, but has had to grow up around people who are. What made them that way? Has it come from the overall polarization of American politics?