Feminism divisive?

Ok, I know I don't have many posts but I used to post on this forum alot years ago and I noticed this forum was new and could not help myself from making a comment, and perhaps opening a discussion.

First let me start off by saying I am not chauvinistic in the slightest, and I am theoretically inclined towards equal rights for all people.

I have come to the conclusion through careful study and weighing of the facts that feminism is a poisonous movement, on par with racism, class ism, and a myriad of other negative -isms that exist within our society today. While it is proper for people to seek equal rights amongst their fellow human beings, the pervading ideology of feminism breeds a sort of contempt between women and men. Feminism has ceased to be a movement dedicated to equality and more a movement dedicated to increasing the divisions between the sexes. This is quite easy to do from a psychological perspective, of course the first instinct of the majority of women that read this post will be to zealously criticize this theory, after all, it's human nature to want to protect and uphold the position of the group they most closely identify with, however I urge you to take a moment and think about what i'm trying to convey. Historically those in power, whether they be dictators, governments, monarchs, even local tribesmen have used the concept of "divide and conquer" to influence large populations of people into acquiescing to the enemy without even realizing it. This idea was first espoused by Sun Tzu in his treatise "the art of war" in the 6th century BC. Historically it has been used to control and influence large populations for the benefit of those in charge. Part of the human experience relies on the guidance and support of small family units, this can even be seen in primates. When you promote a radical ideologue such as feminism, while on the surface quite a just cause, over the long term concepts that promote adherence to a specific socio-identity breed contempt and communication breakdown between different groups of humans, in this case between man and woman (or woman and man as you may see fit), this in itself leads to the breakdown of the family unit, the far reaching consequences of which are obvious. I urge you to look at the escalation of divorce rates since the inception of the modern feminist movement, while obviously feminism is not directly responsible for divorce, the pervasiveness of the feminist mentality in popular culture has undoubtedly led to a chain reaction. It is my personal belief, that feminism is no different than the white power movement, political parties, racism, and a whole host of other divisive tactics. It's quite easy to defend the group your a part of, and more often than not people cannot see the forest for the trees when it comes to their own socio-identity. I am quite familiar with pro-feminist rhetoric, and I truly believe in equality for women, I myself love women and consider them to be goddesses on earth, however the idea that one group of humans should band together based on these socio-identities is flawed and dangerous in and of itself. In order for their to be true equality the only possible answer is for ALL people to realize that unity exists within the human race, we have just been blinded to it, we ARE all one, men, women, black, white, yellow...........we are all people. When you have all of these different groups fighting specifically for THEIR cause, you will never get anywhere..........their is absolutely no compelling reason why we should argue amongst ourselves, that is exactly the point behind the divide and conquer strategy. Factions promote fractionism, which does nothing to help the factions and everything to help those that introduced the factions in the first place. Don't accept the modern feminist movement for what it espouses to be, governments and corporations laid the foundation for this movement, much like they laid the foundation for most of these other divisive movements. Something that appears to be altruistic in nature can often be the most dangerous. Equality is not founded in -isms and socio-identity groups, equality is found when all parts of the sum unite as one.

 

A very interesting post, most of which I agree with. I'm not sure this is the right forum to appreciate it though.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. This is why I don't consider myself a feminist. Most of my friends are obnoxiously feminist, some have even said that until women are treated equally to men (whatever that means), that women should get special treatment. When I then ask if they believe that women will ever receive equal treatment, they generally admit that no, they don't think this will ever happen...thus admitting that they think women should receive special treatment until the end of time (??).

It's almost as if these women have "victim envy"...they see marginalized groups and want in on the attention too. And most of them are white, middle-class women who wouldn't really fit into any other "marginalized group" category. Some feminists who are black have even taken to calling themselves "womanists" to distinguish themselves from the "feminists," because the feminist movement historically was only concerned for the rights of wealthy white women. Even when they payed lip service to the abolitionist movement, they were really only looking out for themselves. In fact, when black men got the right to vote before white women did, Elizabeth Cady Stanton (sp?) was quoted as saying something along the lines of "How dare you give these ditch-diggers the right to vote before we do!!"

I also don't like how feminists overlook areas of our society where men are at a disadvantage--namely, the family court system, where men have to cough up child support but are barely allowed to see their kids.

Wow, didn't mean for this to turn into such a rant, haha.

-Kate

 

I think radical or "extreme" feminism is very divisive and also bad for women and men.--That's why one of the worst words you can call alot of women nowadays is a feminist. I've found most women have a very negative view of feminism nowadays,and have had that view for the past 15 years or so.--But don't tell the media that,lol,US media especially loves to divide,and stir things up.--'Radical' feminists are just women that either hate men,are jealous of men or want to be a man.Or in some cases a combination of the three. --I know my post will offend some,but hey it's the truth.

 

For one:

Uh..this "feminist mentality" you speak of is when women started believing in their ability to support themselves, be happy with or without a man, live THEIR dreams... some started leaving the subservient positions they've been dealt by society and taking control of their lives. Why is this a bad thing? I agree with you that we should promote equality in the absolute sense, including all people, but I think you're failing to see how sexism and mysogynism, etc. were so deeply ingrained in our country .. it permeated everything in a sociological sense, just like racism. The individual equality/rights movements that exist are there because the ones before them exist. A step forward is a step forward, man.

Also, the numerous differences between feminism and racism are pretty obvious. It's hard to believe you can't recognize them because you seem moderately intelligent.

 

haha

 

Another quick comment, feminism has always been alot 'less' popular in many countries in Europe and other premier(top) countries worldwide.--

 

To an arrogant person, anyone who disagrees is "divisive". That's what the slaveowners said in America 150 years ago--in the name of unity, agree with me!

And it's totally wrong to see feminism, as it exists for most people, as being a conflict between women and men. Plenty of women are able to see the issues as being between people with a progressive, versus backward-looking, outlook. They got a good laugh out of Sarah Palin, for instance. But then there was some argument about how there were feminists who were attacking Palin in sexist terms, instead of simply as a hopeless candidate who had few ideas and less knowledge.

Most feminists are heterosexual, and either have male partners or wish they did. And there was a recent report that women with feminist attitudes have happier relationships than women who don't. It's hard to reconcile that with the idea that they're women who hate men! But for someone who wants to believe that men should keep on dominating women, it's comforting to keep on presenting the extreme fringe of feminism as being what it's all about.

 

Wow...........i'm kind of floored at the rhetoric i'm seeing. If you cannot see the bigger picture of what i'm trying to espouse then theirs no hope. I'm not of the mind to specifically pick on feminism, I have the same problem with any other movement that has become overzealous and misguided in their missions. I have no denial that the feminist movement has had some positive impact for the rights of women, and i'm sorry that our society is patriarchal, but I do not feel that a singular movement is going to change that, most sociological problems cannot be repaired without a massive awakening of consciousness which is only possible with unity, not fractionism. Don't you understand what i'm trying to say? The usefulness of these divisive movements has peaked. Once gay and lesbian people are given equal babylonian rights their movement will have peaked it's usefulness as well. Same thing with the black power movement, people of all races now have equal rights, their movment has gone beyond the point of usefulness. Theirs a corner you can turn where it ceases to be a positive movement and begins to become an overzealous faction promoting divisiveness and that is what I am trying to make the case for. Now, of course their are still sociological problems for every subgroup of our society, however part of this problem is the divisiveness created by the loyalties one ascribes to their socio-identity, once the babylonian rights are given, the next logical step is to unite as ONE people, not behind what we perceive to be our closest brethren, but all together. Only then can true healing and equality begin. Everyone has their guard up, in the existing methods............it's all about ONE love. ONE humanity.

 

I really liked this post.
Really, I think socially, women are strongly favored in our society.
If you're a man, you're an asshole, you're most likely a cheater, who doesn't respect his wife, and only cares about himself.
When in reality, women cheat just as much, if not more (studies suggest), and women (particularly of younger generations) act just like men do.

Men are told their whole life that they are bad, they are told their whole life that their are certain archetypes that they have to fit to be manly, and then they are told that they should always respect women, and never ever say '****' - all this, when they naturally revere women already for their extreme beauty.
I think it's pretty fucked up.


And super, don't let Tei get to you, (s)he is not someone to be taken seriously. That style of argument is the one the bullshitters and the nuts always use. The barely connected illogical comparison to a totally different concept, complete with a way to call the person you disagree with horrible and immoral - that person should be posting such hate at Fox News, not a hippy forum.

 

In my post I was mainly talkin' about 'extreme' feminists(the kind US media loves to parade around),for example a person like Gloria Allred who is just a hater,similair to an Al Sharpton,another hater that US media loves.--These types of people do NOT represent common sense views. --I also mentioned that feminsim is 'not' popular in many Premier countries worldwide,ie: European nations and other top countries.--Women in general do great in those countries,maybe better than the average American lady nowadays.--I have not looked further at the feminist section of this forum,but I would venture to say most of the posts are from people in the US and Canada.---Anyhow even in the US feminism in all forms has been losing popularity for a long time now.

 

I don't agree.
Recently, the salary gap between men and women has gotten a lot of focus in the media, because of a few studies and reports that were well echoed by the news outlets.
This is a feminist idea/complaint that is rightfully being exposed/fought and that women are slowly yet surely overcoming.
So, I would not say feminism in all forms is losing. Though I do agree that the concept of feminism is less popular, again, I would say rightfully so.

 

Thats my point,it's the US media talking about it.--I do not even view US media anymore so I was not familiar with that story.I've said this before but the US media,once the best in the world has slowly turned into one of the worst in the world.--I personally do NOT know even one lady who calls herself a feminist anymore.---Screw US media,it's a waste of time.

 

I will agree with you that US now has the worst news in the world, but I don't see how that fits with your point so well..

 

To sum it up the US media has become a bunch of shit stirrers.

 

Well, I agree with that, but still don't see how that's in junction with your point. But uh, I think we are having some communications problems, and I'm willing to just drop it, so if that's cool with you, I suppose that's what we'll do =)

 

There's nothing wrong with women fighting for equality. It's simply not fair that a women makes only 3/4 of what a man does. It's not fair that you can't even buy a vibrator in some states, including Mississippi where you can get a gun w/o a background check. It's not fair that SEVERAL of my friends have been raped, and people say "well, they shouldn't have been that drunk, or they shouldn't have dressed like that." It's not fair that women are supposed to be pure, and men are expected to be dogs (boys will be boys).

Feminism might be divisive. Some people are scared shitless of powerful women. It doesn't have to be that way, though. But then again, what do I know... I'm just some crazy ****.

 

Kather1ne,

I totally agree with every point you made. It's not fair. Your not some crazy ****, your just justifiably angry at the social paradigms that exist right now. However I still think your missing my point.............i'm trying to advocate healing for EVERYONE, not just women...........and for the record i'm not scared shitless of powerful women, nor am I an apologist, I'm just a human, trying to convince other humans to throw away their divisive identities and unite as one.

 

I think that's what feminism is trying to do. I don't dislike men, nor do I blame them for the injustices women face everyday. That's an individualistic approach that won't get anyone anywhere. Feminism just makes these injustices known, and tries to "convince other humans to throw away their divisive identities and unite as one."

Feminism isn't as divisive or as harmful as sexism.

 

I agree that that's how a lot of feminists are, and that they are great people. However, feminism as a whole and many (if not most) people who call themselves are raging sexists; and they justify it by saying society is sexist in favor of men; and that's sickening. No better than the Black Panthers (in fact much much worse).
And it doesn't have to be an individualist approach - people can organize as 'anti-sexists' or whatever they want to call them, however, feminists bitch about words having 'man' in it, then go on and call their fight feminism. It's hypocritical self-righteous bullshit.