Discussion in 'Psychic' started by Dr.Timothy, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. Dr.Timothy

    Dr.Timothy Member

  2. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    I haven't noticed anybody discussing candles or magic wands on this forum. I have noticed a lot of people discussing Tarot cards. I know where you're coming from, Timothy--or should I say, Joseph? However the development of faith is not necessarily always straight-line and simple. The Tarot--or I Ching, say--is a useful tool, and can help expand both faith and awareness. There are other useful tools as well. If the material world were totally unnecessary, couldn't we all just remain spirits?
  3. Dr.Timothy

    Dr.Timothy Member

    Your missing the point.

    People tend to put more faith in a material object, such as a candle or a wand than in themselves. People often feel that the "power" resides in such tools when they fail to see where their true "power" comes from. If they only stopped and realized they were the source, the cause, and started having faith in themselves more life would be much easier for them.

    We are here to learn in the physical, to experience and grow. True growth comes from within, finding who we are. Finding where our true source and Self comes from, which is spirit [​IMG]. Those tools you mention, draw from our subconscious. Too many times people put more faith in those tools as the answer or origination of power than in Self.
  4. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    Okay, your point is that lots of people believe it's the object that has the power, when in fact the power comes from themselves. I agree that this is often true. However I still believe that objects can be used as tools to help develop faith and awareness.

    Also, I hate to complicate things or detract attention from your point, however: I believe there are objects that have power in and of themselves. See for examples The Witch's Dream, by Florinda Donner, or The Eagle's Gift, by Carlos Castaneda. I think you have a very good and valid point, however I also want to avoid oversimplifying reality for the sake of that point.
  5. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    i think that to immagine all power to reside in our individual selves is a kind of collective ego trip. even that it might somehow have to reside exclusively in some sort of awairnessess is. spritiness is however itself nontangable and seldom if ever attatches directly to a specific object itself. seldom but i would not without great reluctance rule out any possibility in a universe whose mechanisms are largely statistical and who'se only intrinsic nature is an all encompassing diversity.

    do focus objects become 'charged' with some sorts of energies projected into to them, perhapse by our very nature of experiencing? this is one thing that may be possible. another of course, is that this may be mearly one subjective manor of experiencing.

    i see no reason to assume both possibilities to be mutualy exclusive, nor even to exclude the existence of other possibilities and blends. when dealing with what we don't, and sometimes quite possibly cannot, objectively know, it makes, to me, far more sense simply, to accept that what we do not know we do not know, rather then to cling emotionaly to good feeling or right sounding speculative assumptions, as all to many of us, myself included, have been perhapse enculturated to do.

    i think what we have to understand in many instences is that speculation is speculation, though likewise neither does this rule anything out.

    i don't know about wands or candles. objects of 'art', as they are called, tend to possess only such energies as they are 'charged' with. whereas places, on a very different hand entirely, do seem to possess, for lack of a better term, a kind of spiritness of their own. as well as do life forms, and likewise, KINDS of life forms.

    these latter can become a kind of allie, if and when, both you and they, are mutualy willing. but yes, this kind of nontangable energy is not like a tecnology in a mechanistic sense. everyone cannot simply pick up such an object as one can with a mechanism wholy material in nature, and expect to 'press its buttons' so to speak, and get repeatable, mechanistic resaults.

    one can however, by building an alter or tokanoma, provide, a kind of guest house, where energies outside of one's individual own, can find rest and welcome comfort.

    if done in a spirit of generosity, rather then of arrogance or greed, this is a very good and wonderful thing to do. and even if not immediately reciprocated in any obvious way, none the less in no way goes unappreciated by all who may pass through and come, for a time, to dwell therein.

  6. sexbanshee

    sexbanshee Member

    Some people prefer to use tools as it
    may feel more substantial to do so...

    I like to light candles....because they
    feel good...

    But my work can still be conducted
    without them...

    I have much faith in my own power..
    the tools, whether it be cards, candles..

    just add to it!
  7. sexbanshee

    sexbanshee Member

    I suppose the only way to have faith blindly...
  8. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    Dear sexbanshee, it's my experience that when I ask for faith, I receive experiences that open my eyes rather than blind me.

    Which is not to say that some folks' faith may not be sufficient in and of itself...
  9. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    Dear God LOL If i were inclined to build altars to fallible beings, themnax would be among my top choices.
  10. run2fly

    run2fly Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    I personally find that the tool or material device is not only irrelevant, but distracts us from practicing real faith. Faith that involve believing that the fuller we evoke our inner power, the greater will be the results we seek, is something that can be done by repeating rhythmic statements like "mantras," believing them as we repeat them, and fully focusing on the result we wish to achieve. I think this is the essence of true Magick, as well as of meditation (in the magical sense, involving development of the power of the will), and so most of what has been written on the subject has over-complicated what is basically a simple matter of will, faith, focus, persistence, and practice.
  11. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    Okay, I took the training wheels off my little girl's bike and told her, "Have faith." She fell down and broke her elbow.

    Fine, I lied about that, but I think it illustrates a point.
  12. run2fly

    run2fly Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Point well-taken. But there is a difference between a child needing parental assistance in various forms, devices and otherwise, and a mature adult whos intention is to exercise his will and his senses in order to achieve postive results.

    The child functions from the heart, and needs the guidance of the adult. The adult, hopefully anyway, functions from the mind--so the training wheels are unnecessary. Do you, at 53, ride a bicycle with training wells. I, at 54, ride a 21-speed hybrid bicycle.

    My point is, I don't think matters of magic and the development of deep psychic resources ought to be undertaken by the those who are still in need of assistance in much more basic matters (such as how to clothe themselves, use the toilet, get to school on time, and so forth.)
  13. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

    Everybody is a beginner at something. Maturity is relative, and varies in different areas even within a single individual, even if that individual is 100 years old and has lived a thousand prior incarnations.

    Granted to your point: IDEALLY we should not need to rely on crutches. However I personally started ruthlessly discarding the "shoulds" in my life years ago, and I think this is a process that all maturing people "should" go through. Individual souls don't seem to conform to ideals, in my experience.

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