Faith for Freaks

Is there a way to reconcile the mores of the hippy culture with Christianity? I consider myself a Christian and embrace many of the values, yet I have a hard time fitting in with Christians and church.

While I was raised to believe in God and Christianity and baptized at the age of 9, much of my life has been lived totally hedonistic. Even during those times though, I still had this underlying desire to seek and know God more intimately. I've been the "prodigal son" many times. During the past 15 years I have swung from one extreme to the other. I have given myself over completely to a Christian lifestyle, yet am continually turned off by the hipocracy of the church and other Christians. Having a pretty good knowledge and understanding of the Bible, it seems that a great deal of modern day Christianity falls way short of what is was first established to accomplish. I'm wondering if it isn't time for something new?

What are your thoughts?

 

The general morality of the christian faith is relient on the bible, and part of my disgust with organized religion comes from presenting their various books as historical fact. I have my own morality, based partially on Jesus and love and peace, and partially on scientific values, and (obviously) I think that's the way to go. As Socrates said, "No greater good can happen to a man than to pursue human excellence every day."

 

I too and turned off by a lot of hypocricy in some churches, and hate how some stuff just gets swet under the rug by church leaders and congregations. Other churches, they just bore me to tears. But I am convinced...that there is a church, or some way, for every Christian to experience spiritual growth and fellowship. I'm a firm believer in the fact that is doesn't even have to be a "church". The building doesn't matter. If you want to persue God on your own, go for it. If you want to fellowship with other believers, be it in a small church setting, or maybe just do a Bible study with some folks...or just go out in nature (or wherever you are comfortable) and meditate and connect with Him...by all means, do so. I've found a church that does a lot of Outreach ministry. I've only been there a few times, and meant some really cool folks...for now, this will be my "church home".

 

Actually, yes, there is a way to reconcile the hippy culture with Christianity. One of my favorite things that a lot of us Christian hippies out there like to say was that Jesus himself was a hippy! He embraced all the values that are considered traits of some hippies, such as love for everyone and he was all about peace. Being a hippie does not HAVE to mean that you do drugs or have sex with everyone or any of those other stereotypes. Being a hippie can be a lot of things, really. I was like you once, wondering if it was possible to be a hippy and a Christian at the same time, and several years after deciding YES! it is possible, I am living proof that one can be a "hippy" type person and a Christian at the same time. I've found it really quite easy to reconcile the two philosophies, because really they go hand-in-hand if you look at it the right way.

I couldn't agree with your post more. The hypocrisy of today's "Christians", or at least the mainstream Christians, is rampant. I live in what is considered the "Bible Belt" and have been searching for a Church home where I fit in for the last several years, and only just recently found one. All the other churches I've been to had this feel of being fake, of everyone just being there out of obligation and not out of love for God. They were also all very judgemental and had this mindset of you have to follow this rule and that rule or you're not saved. You had to dress a certain way, act a certain way, etc or you weren't saved. Bullcrap. In my journey I've found that most of the Christians I've run into in person and online are part of Mainstream Christianity, and to be honest, Mainstream Christianity seems so far from what God and Jesus wanted it's not even funny. Sometimes I swear some churches are the opposite.

Fortunately, I finally found a church that embraces me and all my hippiness, my occasionaly odd style of dress, my nose stud, all my hemp jewelry, and whatever else it is about me that causes people to label me a "hippy". They don't look down on me because of the way I look and they seem to have the right idea so far about Christian love and acceptance and preaching the true message of Christ. They are all about how God can make your life better and how to open up that line of communication with Him, not about teaching you how to follow certain rules or judging this group of people or that group of people. One of my favorite things about that church is that there is such a wide variety of attendees. There's people who look like hobo's, there's people who are goths, there's young, there's old, there's the traditionally dressed up people, the people in pajamas. It really shows that they know that the true spirit of Christianity is about love for everyone, not judgement.

I wish that all churches, or at least that mainstream Christianity shared this philosophy of what Christianity really is. I've always had this view and philosophy, and I have always had a big problem with "mainstream Christianity". I am sorry but I feel like that in many situations it's not true, or at least not what was intended. The kind of Christianity that was meant to be would not produce so many hypocrites, judgmental people, and everything else that gives Christianity a bad name.

Anyway, glad to see there's someone else in my boat!

 

I dig what Trystan is getting at but I do want to drop two comments on this:
- Dont let 'Hypocrites' keep running your life and stop giving the Church over to them. You go to Church and stop letting them make you stay away. If they dont like you then Eff them. Ignore them. Since when are they your Boss and dictate whether you go or not?

- If you find the Perfect Church then please do NOT join it or it will cease to be the Perfect Church.
Everyone of us is a 'Hypocrite' anyways and that is exactly why the Church is there, established my Christ so that we can confess our Hypocrisy and take on his Grace and together all us 'hypocrites' can start growing in Grace.

I definately DO know what you are saying Trystan and I am a very strong believer in what I think will be a new wave of Churches coming together with people like yourself more involved and welcome.
Not so much people who are trying to avoid being in 'The World' but those of us who were 'of the world' got chewed up and thankfully spit back out and now can see the difference and "KNOW' why we are not gonna be part of 'the world' in real living ways.
If that made sense?

 

I'm not Christian...but I believe the core teachings of Jesus are pretty simple, good ones. I think the church and most practitioners of the faith have their priorities out of wack, and have lost touch with what Jesus wanted...

When it really boils down to it, his message was "Be nice and love one another".
Which I think works pretty damn well with the hippy culture.

 

I do not agree with the never ending accusations that propose that the Church is a big problem or is some sort of failure.
This reminds me of something which just gets 'introduced' and then spoken of as a 'given' long enough that people think it will just 'become true' or carry out some goal as long as its 'accepted as true'.

OBVIOUSLY we all know there are some idiotic Churches and every community could find a few that are annoying or silly too.
OCCASIONALLY you find a Church denomination that is really causing more harm than good to their members.
OVERALL its wonderful that most churches are carrying on Sunday and throughout the week doing all kinds of good works as a natural result of their hearts being transformed and influenced by Godly teachings.
Charity, Councilling, and while this seems to surprise people - giving a room full of people some inspiration and uplift about being right with your fellow man.

Just as an example: Im not a Roman Catholic but I fail to see this rumour being spread 'as if it were a given' that something terrible is happening over at my local cathedral.
They go and sing hymns and forget doctrinal debates here - generally everyone coming out of that Mass is a little bit better for it.
A little more 'in the spirit' of goodness for going.
The Church does phenominal charity and that includes paying the rent for non-christians who come in off the street and ask.
Are there three assholes in the group of 100 of them?
Yes.
Are there three assholes per group of 100 people attending a 'Styx' concert that was held last week?
Yes.
Even the three assholes in the whole congregation are a littttttle lesss assholean than they would be otherwise.

No sorry, I cant keep listening to people trying to 'introduce' this idea that 'Look at the churches and the badness they are doing'.
No.
Thats not real and if it really is in your area then I suggest you move.
Most communities enjoy nothing but a very lop-sided benefit from Churches overall.

 

I'd say check some of the writings by Ram Das.....he was a hippy, a dr. of psych at harvard...befriended tim leary, fell in love with lsd and the psychedelic state....then went and discovered god and wrote books about it...he's really good at speaking to a generation of hippies about god and spirituality

 

Since when did Jesus say "thou shalt not enjoy thyself"?

Hey, Jesus was homeless, longhaired, hung out with a bunch of other guys. He drank, got into fights, didn't give a crap for conventional religion, morality or the police state he was in.

If that ain't hippie I don't know what is.

 

I've come to the conclusion that you can't say "Christians are this..." about anything.


I've traveled alot and I've met some really cool christians and I've met some real whack jobs.

 

hi again Trystn....I relate to what you are saying. I was raised Christian (Baptist) and embraced it quite a bit (off and on I admit) til just recently (the last few years). I went through my spells of trying to be devout, but never could find a church I liked enough to go to, I just didn't fit in anywhere. My beliefs, shall we say, are quite open. And organized (christian especially) religion is so restrictive, it seems; it has just got too far away from the original Christian thoughts, so I gave up trying to fit in.

also I must admit the fact that since dubya professes his kind of faith (whatever that is), I was totally turned off and wanted nothing to do with anything he espouses. Maybe that is a failing of mine, I'm not denying Christ, but good grief, having so many hypocrites who profess Christianity is enough to deflect a person for life from anything to do with it.

I am still sorting things out. I definitely believe in a Higher Power, and I don't think we all see that One the same. I don't think people who have not accepted Christ as their savior are going to hell. I think there are as many religions in this world as there are people. God understands this, he is way bigger than we are. someone said on these forums recently, about "putting God in a box" and that's so true, and that's where organized religion fails.

I will never give up my spirituality (to me that is a personal quest that each person decides for themselves), but I defnitely question "religion", all the time. they are 2 separate concepts to me.

 

Tristan. Real Christians are finally waking up to the fact that what the government is doing, doesn't fit in with true Christian Religious mores. That was evidenced earlier in the week, when a contingent of Christians went to Capitol Hill to protest budget cuts for the poor as not being compatable with the teachings of Jesus. Here is a thing about what went down.

The Real Christmas Scandal

For some on the right, this Christmas season is about little more than empty political symbolism. The most important issue for people like Jerry Fallwell is ensuring the greeters at stores like Target and Lands End say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays." Self-described "religious conservatives" in the House spent their time yesterday introducing a resolution "Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the symbols and traditions of Christmas should be protected." Meanwhile, that same group of lawmakers has helped push through $50 billion in cuts for programs that provide vital assistance to the poor, including Medicare and food stamps, and passed over $90 billion in tax cuts, mostly for the wealthy. In the Bible, Christians are cautioned not to do as their leaders do, "for they do not practice what they preach." Following the teachings of Jesus, who condemned the actions of those who put public piety before care for the poor, a group of over 200 religious leaders came to Washington yesterday to protest the House budget, which they called "the real Christmas scandal." The Washington Post reports, "Outside in the frigid cold for several hours, more than 200 demonstrators sang religious and holiday songs, prayed aloud and chanted, 'Stop the cuts.'" In an act of civil disobedience, 114 religious leaders were arrested when they refused to leave the steps of the Cannon House Office Building.

THE BUDGET AS A MORAL DOCUMENT: Jim Wallis, founder of the Christian ministry group Sojourners who was arrested at the protest, noted, "The media seems to think only abortion and gay marriage are religious issues." Wallis pointed out, "Poverty is a moral issue, it's a faith issue, it's a religious issue." Wallis is not alone. Christian religious bodies that have weighed in against budget cuts to programs that serve the poor -- including the Catholic Church, the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church and the United Church of Christ -- represent more than 86 million Americans. It's a small contingent aligned with the radical right that takes a different approach. For example, "groups such as Focus on the Family say it is a matter of priorities," and its priorities are opposing abortion, opposing same-sex marriage, and seating judges who will back its position against those practices. Wallis describes this approach as "trading the lives of poor people for their agenda. They're being, and this is the worst insult, unbiblical."

Progress Report

Myself personally, I'm an agnostic athiest. I'm not really sure if I believe that there is no supreme being. Aside from that, I'm sure real Christians see through the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells, like the rest of us do.

"But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need, and closes his heart against him, how does the love of god abide in him."
1st Epistle of John 3:17

 

luvhuffer, For an agnostic atheist you sure are hip on what is up! Your post echoes an epiphany I had not long ago. Mature Christian faith should be less about me, and more about them.

By neccessity, an immature or new Christian is focused on what is known as the "milk of the word". That is, those biblical precepts that teach the basics of the history and ideology of Christianity, and those that work to transform former lifesyles and values from secular to spiritual. In this case, faith is focused on me. The "meat of the word" include those precepts that focus on the application of the teachings of Christ. Above all, love is the preeminent focus of his teachingts, and the the hinge on which all else hangs. Love for God, my neighbor, and even for my enemies! Love for them should compell a mature Christian to seek to apply the wisdom, knowledge and power of their faith to accomplish only a few simple things. In the parable of the sheep and goats, Jesus taught about the difference between those who claim to be Christian and those who truly live the life.

The parable teaches that true Christians are those who's activities and concerns are focused on the needs of others. In addition to those things listed above, there is one other expression of this love that Jesus asks Christians to fulfill. To teach other people about him.

I agree, the values and goals of today's Christianity, churches and religious leaders are askew. They are focused on the me and not the them. I live in what is known as the Bible Belt of America. In my city there is a church within walking distance of every person; however, the impoverished, the hungry, the homeless, lonely and lost remain a low priority on the list of things to do. The Bible teaches that the church is responsible to care for them. In fact, churches used to serve their communities more effectively in that way. But over the years, that responsibility has been relegated to government, charity and non-religious social programs.

As a whole, the churches of America have the resources and capital to make a huge impact on the the least important of society. People would respect and embrace Christianity more readily if they did so. But the main components neccessary to activate true Christianity have become secondary. That is, the teachings of Christ and love for mankind.

 

If by secondary you mean, put aside until christmas or thanksgiving, then i agree with you. Im no really sure about many churchers, but it would seem the right thing for a church to do would be to have year round charities, which i suspect there are many of these. But the churches that i have been to, we have services, church gatherings, mass, then a charity on christmas and maybe some other holidays. The main focus of a church imo should be for able christians to gather together and provide for others, regardless of the season or holidays approaching.

 

I don't buy into the Jesus son of God thing. I have my doubts about the Bible as an accurate histiorical record, being that I suspect most of it was handed down in the oral tradition, and actually committed to paper long after. I received an E-mail 3 days ago. Some beautiful pictures of the town of Versoix in Switzerland near Geneva City. The town was covered with a thick layer of ice, and the pictures included some of the signage with the city's name. Yesterday I received an e-mail with the same photos, except for the ones pointing to the towns name deleted. The caption was "Brrrrrr, this was Lake Geneva in Wisconsin last week." A perfect example of how info can quickly become distorted. Especially if you want to use it to pass on a parable, or an analogy of faith or morality. Archaeology over the last 100 years has evidenced many of the facts in the Bible as having a basis in fact. and I don't deny that.

Back to J.C. and the son of God thing. If God created the heavens and earth and created us in his image, then in essence we are all just an extension of Gods thought, and therefore we are God. I see Jesus as a teacher. When Jesus said the "I am the way the truth and the life" thing I doubt he was telling everyone to go to church and worship him and put day-glo plastic Jesus' on our cars dashboard, and burn candles in glass containers with his moms picture on it. But rather Look at me, and how I have lived my life, and use it as an example of how you should live yours. If you do that then it doesn't matter what your religious preferences are or are not for that matter. Are all those little babys in Africa going to burn in hell because they never received the word? Is my child born out of wedlock barred from heaven along with his son and his sons son? " A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. " (Deut. 23:2) Sorry I ain't buying it. David was a ninth-generation descendant of Perez, the bastard son of Judah and Tamar (Gen. 38:24-30 ; Ruth 4:18 ; 1 Chron. 2:5-14 ). Obviously, though, David was not denied entry into the assembly despite his descent from one who had been illegitimately born. So anyway, I better quit now before I get too deep into it, and get in trouble.

One last thing. If there is a God he isn't a Democrat or a Republican. And he sure don't need my money. If you want to go to the house of God and have a word with the man, you better find a mountain top to climb.

"Sky began to tremble, Stars began to fall
There were four Angels standin' round
And it wasn't no social call" Procol Harum - Juicy John Pink

 

Hey Trystn, I'm curious which version of the NT you got this out of:

I just checked Matt.25 in 6 or 7 different versions and they all use the phrase "the least of these my "brethren", not "my followers.

I think it's a signifigant distinction in that "brethren" denotes equality, while "followers" identifies someone beneath the speaker.

Also, "brethren" could be taken to mean any human, or if you backtrack and use the definition he gave, "Who is my brother...he who does the will of my father" it could be interpreted to mean anyone of any religion--or none at all--who does God's will, where-as "my followers" restricts the application exclusively to christians.

If you read the entire goats and sheep story in context it seems to imply that that he's talking about humanity in general, not just christians.

 

NaykidApe, I quoted the "Sheep and Goats" parable from the Good News Translation, and I commend your effort to check me out. I used it primarily to support my point that love for them, whoever they are, was a focal point of the teachings of Jesus. (see post #13 in this thread) Even from a non-Christian or non-religious viewpoint, the teaching makes good sense. In the parable, Jesus calls those who do those things as a normal part of their daily lives his "sheep" who will inherit the reward. He calls those who don't, the "goats" who will not. Since he was speaking to his followers, it makes sense that the lesson was for those who claim to be followers, yet don't adhere to the values he taught.

In a nutshell luvhuffer!

 

post #13

Seems like my previous post on this subject seems to have shut the conversation down. I wonder how the love I expressed in my post regarding the quote above reflects the way we treat people, especially during this time of the year?

 

nah, it's not shut down from your post....probably folks just moved on to other topics....this subject was fascinating too. It'll resurface from time to time. that's been my experience. someone who didn't see it before will check it out and say "hey".

 

As a rule posting slows down at this time a year, as many are away from their computers visiting family. Then it gets a spirt right after Christmas as many are discovering their new computers, or have the time to catch up on E-mails. I'm baby sitting, this week so can only sneak a few moments on line at a time.

mine just said "brothers"