Existentialism is false hope..

To me it seems that existentialism has all the right ideas... but then strays away from the truth.. when it tries to create false hope...

The points raised by nihilism seem to me to be most logical... but then existentialism takes nihilism... accepts that there is no reason for us to be here... accepts that there is no ultimate purpose for humans... and that there is no afterlife..

BUT it then does something completlely illogical.. and states that we can 'create' our own meaning.. and people assume that this creation of ours.. 'actualy' creates a 'real' meaning for us to live... creating our own lifes.. and purposes is just as pointless as not doing so...

simply proclaiming that we now have a purpose (whether that be happines.. etc) does not actualy mean ANYTHING.. it is complete false hope...

it is just the same as religious people who create their own purpose in the form of a god... absolutley pointles...

it seems that existentialism is the long route to nihilism..
it simply tries desperatley to create meaning.. and get rid of anxst.. but in the end it fails.. and we are always left with nihilism...

 

existentialism seems way different to me. I don't want to argue, but my interpretation is quite unlike yours.

 

thats cool,
im not sure how mainstream of a view mine is.. but its what i have taken from various books etc..

 

....Go run into a knife then.

 

ahh, very funny..
nihilism doesn't necessarily lead to self harm, suicide or crazy killing sprees...

'oh, i know. lets be ignorant of the truth and pretend there is hope in the world!'

pffft

 

There doesn't have to be hope, there doesn't have to be any answer for all of humanity, either. My answer is: I'm here to find happiness and enjoy life, but I have reasoning for that. It's not some magical shit that doesn't exist, and I wouldn't call it pointless. Plus, it's important to have goals, right? I don't make the assumption that you or anyone else has any special goals, hopes, or ambitions of any kind, besides staying alive. Everyone internalizes their own goals.

I observe that there is nothing more to my life than what I see, as it has not presented itself; but who cares, anyway? Even with philosophy, we can't know all the answers. Let's not worry about it. We're here, drink beer, get used to it.

 

I'll drink a beer with ya

 

i don't think it's false hope ..it gives our life some meaning ... the false hope will b if we "" DON'T HAVE ANY HOPE " in our own life

 

What is then keeping you alive? If there is no hope, there is no need for life.

People create their own meaning and it keeps them going.
The meaning which people create may not be the truth necessarily on the greater scale. On the smaller scale, how can meaning for someone be false if it ment something to that particular individual. The only way that individual will be remembered is by the way he or she treats other people.

 

hope.. means nothing if it is not based on reason..

you say it can mean something to the individual.. yes - but for it to be real hope they must have made a mistake when reasoning because there is no reason/knowledge in the world (from a nihilistic view- which i mentioed at the begining) and therefore the supossedly 'real' hope is in fact false hope.. because it is based on false reason

you mentioned something about being remembered for how we treat people...
this seems irelivant.. since once we are dead.. anything is irelivant..
if you must live for something.. live for today rather than how you will impact the future after your death.. because u won't be alive and so its not as though youll feel good for helping society or something..

and you ask me what is keeping me alive..

i havent got any motive to kill myself for a start.. denial of reason to live doesn't = lack of ability to live..

also.. im young and still exploring ideas.. and finding out what is true in the world.. so i am open to other opinions.. and not completely set upon the idea of nihilism.. although it seems the most logical to me now..

this makes me sound like a really dull depressing person hah.. im not

 

To me, existentialism means that I put more weight into what I have experienced than believing something I am told. Existentialism then is purely subjective versus looking at the world solely objectively.

As for Nihilism, its bleak outlook on life caused me depression to no end; everything became meaningless. You mention "truth". Exactly what truth is there in Nihilism? As far as logic goes, its a crock - a logical argument can be constructed to prove that you do not exist. For example:

1] Only objective reality exists. If it can not be measured, weighed, filed, indexed, folded, stapled then it does not exist.
2] Consciousness is not objective, consciousness is subjective; one cannot point to where in the brain it resides, nor can one differentiate between the consciousness of one person and compare it to the consciousness of another person.
3] Ergo, you do not exist.

The same type of twisted logic can be applied to Nihilsm, with the result being that one loses all meaning of life.

 

Don’t take this as an attack on you because this is has nothing to do with your person. I’m trying to understand your point on this philosophy and am left dangling on some points.

Correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t your first sentence contradict itself? Existentialism has the right idea; however it strays from the truth, nihilism, by trying to create false hope. The contradiction in this statement seems to come from the fact that if it is really nihilism then nothing matters in the end. If nothing matters in the end, what is this existent truth when no reason or logic exists in the world?

If reason does not exist under nihilism, hope cannot come from reason in order to be valid because reason does not exist.

We may not have any “real” purpose in life. Once we die, that’s it. Our bodies will be come dust. At that point, nothing we ever did will matter to us anymore. In this external world, there are other people around us. Our death will be meaningful to the people who cared about us. Our lives do effect other people’s lives.

How can you say that the effect we had on other people’s life is meaningless if it was meaningful to the people we knew? Only when the last thinking mind on the planet dies will anything reason ever stood for be completely lost.

Because we are alive and most of us wish to keep on living, this is proof that we still have goals. Our goals enable us to create some kind of purpose for while we are still alive. It does not matter in the long run who we were or what we did. Unless we destroy or this planet is destroyed, meaning will never be completely lost because someone will always be able to find some meaning out of nothingness because someone will always exist.

If we are alive we do seem to have a purpose. It seems that purpose is to survive through each day. We are not going to be alive forever; but perhaps because we exist, maybe we should try to stay alive?

Unless something really drastic happens we are never going to all cease existing at the same time. As unlikely as it would seen for all of existence to be wiped out over night; we should perhaps try to find some meaning in something. Life without meanin seems to be non exist. If we do not have a set purpose in life, at least if we create a purpose of our own, perhaps it may be a step up above nothing.

Whether or not a person has meaning in the long run is irrelevant to the now. Unless a person finds a purpose in the short term period, it would seem that he or she is already partially dead.

Because you do not have the motive to kill yourself, you got something. Because you want to explore ideas and find truth, you are finding meaning in something. Remember, if there is nothing, there is no truth. Because you are alive, you still have not lost all hope that there may be some truth out there in that vast of nothingness.

Stay strong and stay well. Peace to you.

:cheers:

 

Ummm... I think that nihilism is actually a form of existentialism... like a subcategory.

And I don't think that it's about CREATING meaning... more about FINDING meaning. It's more about recognizing that we are FREE to discover whatever the world around us holds.

So as far as I can tell, the point of it is, in a nutshell, that meaning can't be created... only discovered.

 

I think of myself as an existentialist, but I don't really know or care whether Sartre or any of those other dudes would approve. I'm kind of a middle of the road country boy Okie existentialist (lol). What I mean is that I don't know the answers to the Big Questions in life with any confidence: is there really a God? does my life have an ultimate purpose? Is there an afterlife? But that's the way it is. A lot of the people I know are satisfied with the answers supplied by religion or society, and some don't even seem to think it's worth asking the questions--they just go about their routines from day to day. So what do I do? I chose a course that is meaningful to me. I find everyday existence pretty fascinating and intense, and I like people. One of my problems with churchified Christianity is that it seems to view life as cut and dried, with all the answers pre-ordained, rather than an exciting day-to-day adventure of making my way in a scary, beautiful universe. The path I've chosen is an offbeat, gerrymandered version of Christian humanism that I re-examine and revise as I go along--accepting the risk that at the end of the road there could at best be nothing and at worst eternal suffering for making the wrong choice. There could be heaven, too, I guess, but that's not a big motivator for me. Anyhow, welcome to the club.

 

tresbizzare : u seem to speak alot of truth.. but im too lazy to quote and explain my argument with relation to all that text :/ sorry lol

You seem to think the same as i.. that passage pretty much somes up how i go about things..i think existentialism is just.. a life of experience but never discovery.. we go about our lives.. experience new and different things.. but never actualy find any answers.

 

I don't think that some purpose or meaning was ascribed to me by some higher power. my life is, at it's natural state, meaningless.
however, where some see emptiness, i see infinite potential.
I can ascribe whatever meaning or purpose i see fit to my life, and apply that in any way i choose.

meanings a kindof human concept, we give everything meaning, sometimes quite erroniously (the constellations dont guide your lives on earth).
Take words, they are inheriently meaningless flucuations in air pressure, but once humans give them meaning, they have power.

 

If existentialism's main point is the importance of acting morally and being true to ones own Will, then isnt spirituality (NOT ORGANIZED RELIGION FOR FUCK"S SAKE) just existentialism plus the spirit and God? In my opinion the two can jive together as long we aren't gonna be dogmatic about either.

 

I think this 'created meaning' is inherently tied to the notion that reality is defined solely by human perception. At the most fundamental level, existentialists believe simply in the power of human existence; existence itself is the end, rather than being the means to some greater end like an afterlife.

But since our human existences are the only realities available to us, they are indeed quite real, regardless of their insignificance in the 'big picture.' Thus if one perceives some sort of underlying purpose to existence, that purpose exists. And who's to say it doesn't? Whether one lives for love, for power, or simply for the joy of living, that underlying goal is ever present in the reality of one's existence, the only true reality. Thus those goals are by extension real as well, distinguising existentialism from nihilism, which makes no provision for a reality defined by individual existence.

 

Not true, if in your eyes something matters how can it not?

In the large scale of everything, my personal "purpose" may be miniscule but to me its all that matters. So if I can keep in tune with my purpose, I won't need hope I'll have something much more real.

I personaly think we were enginered, by what ever made us, be it god or evolution to find reasons to live, and spread our race. I think we are in a sense tricked to carry on and raise more humans to do the same. I think we are more of a mold or cancer than an animal. Nothing is quite like us.

 

Doesn't existentialism say reality is defined soley by human choice--at least among two or more possible perceptions of reality? We have to choose in the face of uncertainty,realize we are choosing, act upon our choices, and accept responsibility for our choices and actions. We define ourselves by our choices. I can remember as a kid asking my mother why I was here. She gave me the chatechism answer:to love and serve God and be happy with Him in heaven. I accepted it uncritically. She and my church defined my essence. I was not an existentialist. Later I came to have doubts, and made a new commitment--fully realizing that I was making a choice and taking a major risk that I could be wrong about what I was betting my life on. I think of myself now as being an existentialist.