Economic fear-mongering

President Obama is not the problem. Our Congress dropped a stinker of a stimulus bill on to his lap in the expectation that he will push for the stimulus.

There should be no rush to approve the stimulus bill. it is chock full of Bridges to Nowhere that need to be sliced out.

If everybody is complaining about that 700 billion TARP bill lets learn from it, and take apart this monstrosity it can be a lot smaller.

 

My question to this would be what, what phoenix would you have rise from those ashes?

I think we are on the edge, and anyone that knows about the depression wouldn’t want the world to fall into one.

Not least because of the authoritarian political movements that rose out of it’s ashes - things such as fascism in Italy, Germany and Spain, Stalinism in Russia, and the nationalistic militarism that took over in Japanese, which created the conditions for world war two.

Now many think that the reason the US didn’t experience such a political swing was because of the instigation of the New Deal.

 

i imagine that at this point, even if obama walked out in jack boots and a stupid 'stache and singing the nazi national anthem his fans would still blame it on bush and congress. the man can do no wrong in some people's eyes. he's just a man, people. i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but the constant blame deflection is tiresome.

 

That's rich! Sounds a lot like the republican socialist hysteria during the campaigns which didn't work. Perhaps you should get Palin or the Plumber to deliver it. Bush was president for eight years...who should we blame?

 

hahaha! success. i love when you people assume that simply because i don't suck obama's dick i'm a republican! that's awesome, man. thanks.

he's just a man, people.

 

I absolutely love Monty Python!

 

CANADA!

Fareed Zakaria had some kind words for Canada:

 

Amen. He's just a man, but some people seriously adore him. I will watch, wait and pray. Some people have said they hope he fails. Well, I hope his policies fail, but that something happens and we can be restored to sanity. And I'm glad I'm not in his position. But, here is a solution that I think would work better than this porkulus destimulation package.

Let's say this thing ends up costing 1 trillion dollars. And let's say there are 350 million people. If you do the math that comes out to $2857 dollars for each man woman and child. I will take my $2857 stimulus check now Barack, thanks.

Here's another one that might work, also. Take your Trillion dollars and everytime someone buys a car you give them $10,000. That would be 100 million cars. Or you could give more to people that bought American cars than people that buy foreign cars. Lots of people would be in the market to buy a car anyways. So, if they can pay for the car, maybe they will be offered more money if they have to spend it elsewhere which would stimulate other parts of the economy. I just don't know how this would be implemented.

The problem that I see with this thing is that so much of it won't create jobs. It would be better if there were more plans to actually create jobs. a trillion jobs and only 3 million jobs created. Explain this, puh-leeeze. That works out to several hundred thousand dollars per job, just cut three million people a check for, say 150K, and we will save money with the same effect.

The thing is, we need to be spreading the money around. We need to be spending. When the corporate fat cats have lots of money, they go out at have thousand dollar dinners or whatever, someone had to cook that dinner. Someone has to clean up afterward. Someone had to truck the ingrediants to the restaurant. Someone had to grow or raise the food if it was domestic, or import it if it was foreign. All of these people get a piece of that thousand dollars. Then they spend it somewhere else. Why is this a bad thing???

The problem, the way I see it, is that everytime the government sticks their nose into something, they fuck everything up. Does anyone know anything about how companies, like Iberia Airlines or Telstra (A phone company in Australia.) that used to be owned by the government, did after being privatized. I think Telstra initially had trouble with the competition, but if I remember correctly someone told me that their phone service is so much better now because Telstra had to clean up their act and provide service the market demanded or go under.

You are correct in that the crisis was caused by stupidity, incompetence and greed; that of congress. I think Bush actually tried to get the Fed to not pump so much money into the housing market, but couldn't get around congress, though I'm not sure. I didn't use to follow politics before, and I don't exactly know what happened.

Yeah, Pressed, I wanna see this evidence of him being a puppet as well.

I also don't buy into PRessed_Rat's theory of their being a conspiracy in government. Sure, presidents do some things that aren't good and don't tell us about them (Iran Contra, Watergate and Lewinski) but I don't agreee that they are trying to control everything and destroy America. They are trying to change the fundamental way that America operates, though and it is a massive power grab.

 

You want evidence of Obama being a puppet? Just look at the people in his cabinet -- all CFR members. Look at the people who have guided him along the way -- Brzezinski, Soros, etc. -- and still pull his strings today. Look at the people and corporations that funded Obama's campaign. Obama is a creature of Brzezinski, George Soros, the Ford Foundation and Lehman Bros. He is another patsy of the military-industrial complex. It is they who call the shots. Obama decides nothing.

No, I don't buy into the incompetence theory or the coincidence theory. The same people that pulled Bush's strings are now pulling Obama's. It's the same central bankers that created this mess in order to have complete control over the people. Obama was put into office to finish what began under Bush's reign. Now they want to offer us a "stimulus" as being the cure for the problem they created on purpose. This so-called cure is really poison that will only further cripple the economy, which is what they want. If you know something is poison, you're not going to drink it. If you have any care in your heart, you're also going to warn others not to drink the poison, though many will anyway, just like the cult followers of Jim Jones drank the cyanide-laced koolaid when ordered to do so.

 

^^^Why don't you tell us how to solve this problem then? Tax cuts caused the problem, now you're saying a stimulus package is poison? So what sort of solution do you propose? Obviously, since you already know that the stimulus package isn't the way to go about fixing the crisis, you must already know the correct way of doing so. So what do we do???

In the meantime, why not tell us how one is supposed to run an election campaign without the help of public funding and without the help of big money?

Brzezinski opposed the war on terror, as well as the Gulf War. As for the rest of them... you're saying every time a rich person has a political affiliation or a preference for seeing how the country is run, they're actually seizing control of a candidate's mind? So if you preferred McCain to Obama, then I could by that extension say that you didn't just want to see the person you thought should be president become president, and instead you were obviously controlling McCain via a laptop in your parent's basement?

Obviously, the rich end up having more influence on how the country's economy is run... but that doesn't mean that all rich people are controlling everything and running the country like criminal masterminds. I would say it is more likely that rich people have political preferences just like you and I do, and Bush generated enough bad will and did enough damage for a lot of people to want to back Obama.

No, I don't think Obama is a messiah, but he is a breath of fresh air after all the right wing faux-Christian warhawk good old boy big oil inarticulate smarmy I-don't-care-what-you-think-because-I'm-the-boss redneck diplomacy-wrecking hardlining highschool bully cowboy bullshit of the past eight years. The Republicans could have run the love child of Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa and a lot of people still would have said 'no way'.

Obama has heaps of opponents-- but the media isn't one of them, if only because it has always been a little bit liberal, ie: you get the impression he has a huge cult following... but really, it isn't so big. People would abandon him in a heartbeat if they thought he couldn't do the job... and yes, they wouldn't re-elect him.

Nothing Obama has said or done so far has made me think he's not interested in changing things. Of course, he's not going to 180... and I think the stimulus package does need to be thought out, no matter how urgent the crisis is... and perhaps some kind of aid program for the unemployed should be created in the meantime, before the money dries up completely.

 

Just wanted to add that the whole Monica Lewinsky thing was a sad testament to the amount of dumbass right wing Christians there are in the US. Fucking around has absolutely no bearing on someone's ability to run a country. Zero.

That some people actually thought Clinton should have been impeached for that makes you realize that good old fashioned American stupidity is actually the cause of a lot more problems than everyone is willing to let on...

 

Tax cuts didn't create the crisis. Manipulation of the money supply created the crisis. It didn't start with Obama or with Bush. This goes back many, many presidents and is a culmination of years of Federal Reserve manipulation of credit and interest rates. As far as solving the problem, I don't think it matters what I think since the people at the wheel couldn't care less about solving anything. However, simply letting things crash and then allowing the market to correct itself would be better than prolonging the crash so it's ten times worse when it does happen. They can keep printing money up to prolong the inevitable, but eventually the money won't be worth anything. It's basic economics. When you devalue the currency is when you encounter the REAL problems.

Brzezinski opposed the war with one end of his mouth, but the reality is that he was one of the key strategists behind the Middle East agenda and layed out its blueprint in 1997, in his book titled The Grand Chessboard. While Brzezinski may be against the way the neocons went about waging the war, history tells us that Brzezinski is anything but a peacenik. He loves war, as long as it's carried out in the manner in which he envisions. The reason he opposed the Middle East agenda as carried out by the neocons, lies in strategy, not so much philosophy.

 

I think Obama and McCain are equally bad. But McCain is irrelevant. Besides, he stood no chance of winning, which is why they put him up against Obama, guaranteeing his win. You are so caught up in this black vs. white way of thinking that you cannot see things clearly. Just because a person doesn't like one person, doesn't mean they support the other. I don't think things would be much different if McCain had won in November. He is a stooge for the same powerful men behind the curtain that Obama is. It's a matter of different face, same asshole.

 

Very true,you know in Europe for example this(Monica Lewinsky) would never have been an issue.Alot of blame also has to be put on the US media too for having constantly talked about that NON-issue.

 

it was pretty tedious, and i didn't like clinton on a personal level. the man made my skin crawl. but the sexcapades were pretty damned irrelevant to me, except in terms of sexual harassment in the workplace in his past.

 

The Lewinsky coverage should have just been a 1 day story tops.The US media "used" to be the best in the world 20+ years ago.---Now the US has some of the worse media in the world.And I encourage anyone especially those not living in the US to NOT watch or rely on ANY and all mainstream American media for anything.---Stick with the BBC it's a little better.

 

Seems obvious doesn't it? Some people have a real hard time grasping the concept though.

 

:lurk5:

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If you are interested, the tax cuts generated an even bigger revenue stream for the goverment by the inducement of greater economic activity.

Prosperity is not built on confiscatory taxation.

Whatever we deduce on this thread as the causation of our economic problem, lack of goverment revenue is not it.

Goverment sucked more money out of our economy than ever before during the Bush years. iggy:


:grouphug:

 

Hey Mama.............made great reading in the tabloids tho................



Anybody think that the Larry Craig scandal was overblown ?