Do you actually WANT gay bars to let straight people in?

Like, ignoring the practical aspects of enforcing this and suchlike. Would you rather gay bars were open to everyone, or does that defeat the object of having them?

 

Cant really call yourself a gay bar if its half straight women and the straight guys chasing them

 

Yes of course, the idea is to be inclusive of everyone straight allies are really important. And what about bisexual people with heterosexual partners, we have to let them in too becuase their someones partner

 

^ i agree with Kythlo. And how exactly are you going to tell if someone is gay or not ? People can easily lie and you would have no idea. Also there are many gay people who have straight friends, and if they all want to go somewhere, they should be able to go together. I thought being open to everyone's sexuality was about bringing people together, not to segregate them. What if normal bars started not letting gay people in? I don't think you would feel so great getting ditched at the door while your friends went in.

 

Well, that's why I said "ignoring the practical aspects of enforcing this". Although a possibility would be to arrange nights through social networking, say, it would be highly impractical, and gays who don't look gay would be the first casualties.

I get it, up to a point. But I mean, most of us, unless I'm totally out of touch here, go to gay bars for their function, to meet other gay people, to be able to chat and flirt in a safe environment. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need them, and I'd feel safe chatting up any guy, gay or straight, knowing that if he wasn't interested he'd politely decline, and if he reacted rudely or violently no-one would take his side or feel that it was in some way my fault for not assuming he was straight. That's not what we have now though.

If gay bars were about chatting and socialising and what not, I'd understand, but then, if that was all they were about, we wouldn't need them anymore. If they're about providing that safe, nay ideal environment for socialisation though... I dunno, maybe it's not the same where you are, but here, the bars just seem to be becoming more and more heavily populated with straight people. Straight girls go there because the straight guys aren't there, the straight guys follow, and before you know it you have as much chance of hitting on a straight guy as you'd have anywhere else.

This is my little grump really. I see gay bars as a necessary evil. Maybe to those who don't, what I'm suggesting seems harsh. But I dunno, could we not at least see the point in SOME gay bars on SOME nights having this policy (even if, as you rightly point out, it would be kind of hard to police)?

 

That's only something straight and some bi people ask. You cant always tell just by looking at them, but you can tell if they are making bedroom eyes or puppy dog eyes at you.

It's the same kind of question as asking the hot straight dude how he knows which girls fall apart around him.

How is the bouncer going to know? A straight guy isnt going to go to a gay bar unless he's in female company, or unless he thinks there are going to be girls in there.

No there's not, they might have plenty of straight aquaintences, yes, but ones they allow close enough to be friends usually only come via blood relatives. For the most part girls get too clucky, horny or bitchy around gay male couples, and most straight guys are still little boys shit scared of giving off any kind of reaction to a gay guy in front of their girlfriend or their other straight mates. the gay male may socialise with straights when its just girls night out, or guys night out, but will usually avoid mixed hetero.

I know that comes off sounding bitchy, and you are not going to hear that in the real world, if I say stuff like that in the real world, my female "friends" wont be my friends anymore and I might get a smack in the mouth by one of the guys.

It's kind of what this issue is all about, you want a proper gay nightclub, don't let girls in, its that simple. Well for ones the fems like anyway, Bear / Macho gay nightclub is way too scary for straight people.

 

I find that to be a very false and ignorant accusation. All of the gay men i have come to know, have at least 2 VERY close chick friends that they do anything and everything with. Most of them don't get along with their families, and the ones that do aren't extremely close. I'm just saying there are many men who find comfort in their friends, just as most of us do. Maybe it is different where I am but the gay bar here is 80% gay men, 15% lesbians( give or take depending on the night) and the rest are usually friends or randoms. Excluding people from things isn't going to make it better. BUT i do understand what you mean about safety and comfort, I think that having 'guys' only nights maybe twice/three times a week is a good balance.

 

Nope, sorry, not true at all. I've seen bouncers turn away gay guys who weren't gay looking enough, and I've seen them let in guys who were quite obviously only there to harass women. So nope. And this "bedroom eyes" shit is fucking bullshit - you're saying what, that bouncers know you're gay because you WILL be flirting with them if you're really gay? That's a homophobe's fantasy if ever I saw one - how often are bouncers actually attractive? How often are they actually that specific kind of unattractive guy that thinks every gay guy wants his ass despite all evidence to the contrary?

Besides, where the fuck are you going to get an all-gay doorstaff anyway?

There are times when I'm glad to have you around, because you don't seem to have that relentless positivity and rictus false optimism that so many gay guys have. There are, however, other times when I genuinely pity you. This is one of those.

Of course, I can only speak for my own experience but seriously, I have a lot more straight friends than gay, a lot more male friends than female, but still a mix of either. Generally speaking I abhor gay company, but this is largely because of the way gay people behave as a means to identify themselves as gay. This is part of the reason I don't like the encroach of straight people into gay bars - because it re-imports the reason to display one's gayness, in ways that should be unnecessary in an all-gay environment.

This has nothing to do with socialisation. If I want to hang out with straight people, I can and do do that. If you don't, that's fine, but don't expect anyone to accept what you're saying just because you frame it as controversial, an unspeakable truth. It actually isn't very controversial.

Do you ever wonder if maybe that's NOT because you're making some astute, world-shattering assessment, and that you might actually just be wrong?

I do indeed want a properly gay nightclub. But it's because I go to gay bars because of their original function. It's not because I don't have straight friends of both sexes (I actually have a lot more straight friends than gay ones, and close ones too). This is where we differ, I think. I don't want to exclude heterosexuals because I don't want to socialise with them. I just don't see gay bars as a place to socialise (at least, not in the conventionally understood definition of that word).

 

Err, you say its an ignorant statement, but then you go on to say most gay guys you know aren't close to family.

As for the chick friends, are they comfortable seeing their gay friend kiss and pash the boyfriend in front of them? Is the boyfriend of the chick comfortable around them?

You respond like you think I'm crazy, you've never heard the "I dont mind gay people as long as they dont throw it in my face"

Maybe where you are is more progressive, and its just Aussie straight people are backwards. But thats the way I find it, If I want to hang on to a female friend, tip toe around her boyfriend and no PDAs in front of her

 

Yeah, probably.

I've never knowingly made anyone uncomfortable, and I've never really felt unable to do anything I'd want to do with a boyfriend in front of my straight friends, male or female. And fucking hell, if they're dating, why would they even be worried?

Maybe you just look really gross when you "pash".

 

^^^^

You say stuff like that, then you say things like "I abhor Gay company"

(Headscratch smiley)

 

So? It's not like I avoid gay people because I'm worried about what my friends might think. I mean, I guess that might be a reason, but there's a lot more reasons that are more important.

 

As a straight person I still enjoy going to gay bars/clubs. I have many gay friends who I enjoy spending time with. I'm not a big club goer, so if we decide to go, I will go where they chose. I also have a friend who has just come out and has asked me to show her around this town when she moves here. That includes the gay bars. In such a homophobic town as this, she will have trouble finding someone outside of these bars. It can be dangerous to be too out in this town. She has asked me to do this for her, so it would suck for both of us if I was stopped at the door for liking guys.

 

Maybe go dressed as a man?

 

I mean that as a two way street.

I dont know how many times I've heard a girl refer to ""all her gay (male) friends", and you investigate further or get to know her and "all her gay friends" are just a couple of guys she runs into in the nightclubs or cafes does the 20 min BFF act and thats about it.

Being the guy on the recieving end is curious, you're there in a nightclub pinging off your head looking at all the pretty lights focused on you're boyfriend or that one special guy that night and along comes your 20 minute besty usually there to introduce you to someone. You look happy to see her, when its mostly the E thats planted that permismile on your face, and your thinking "Well, look at you, arent you so cool, you have a gay friend, lets get together tommorrow with Carrie and Charlotte and talk about shoes and our man troubles".

So not just about worrying what my staright friends think of me, but also worrying about what I think of my straight "friends".


Vanilla Gorilla - Helping gays break that bitchy stereotype

 

This is about the only part of the above I can actually relate to my own experience. My ex and friend Adam tends to soak up the attention from these women. I'm usually just openly rude to them. I don't need 20 minute friends to meet people (their friends usually suck out loud and thus get a diluted version of the same treatment anyway), and in my experience, they're not 20 minute friends at all, unless you never go back there.

I gotta say, VG, your life seems kind of depressing.

 

I never see any other bar turn down gay people, so yes I do.

In fact, you meet some very nice strait people sometimes, and it really helps break down whatever boundaries have been put up between gay and strait individuals (Even if it is just for a night!)

Although I must confess, I never have been bothered by anyones sexuality anyways. Everyone is sexual, that's enough for me.

 

LOL, still think Gay is just the one thing?

Look at how we "clash". We have some simliarities, we both hate the fake chics. but are very different in other ways. Your straight freinds are mostly male, mine just about all female. You cant stand the scream queens, I think they are a load of fun. I think monogamy is largely a joke, you think its the path to be an upstanding human. You dont think decades of hanging out with mostly girls comapred to mostly guys makes a difference?

My life may be infinitely more depressing than yours (I'm not saying that sarcastically, who knows), but compared to the rest of the population my age....Oy! Well, lets just say for the most part gay certainly doesnt get it worse.

Back to this thread: whats the argument really, no one is saying every gay nightclub should go native. But there are two in Aus that do it, and guess what, they are the busiest, and the "gayest"

 

What do you mean "still"?

I guess people feel like it would be a massive affront to the cause of equality. But if we want equality, gay bars are kind of an anachronism. If anything, gays should collectively show up in straight bars - thereby getting the safety in numbers without hiding.

That's if we don't think in terms of the original function of gay bars. I think there'll still be a market for them even when total equality exists, because finding that 9 out of 10 guys you hit on are straight will cease to be dangerous, but will instead just be boring.

 

A lot of "straight" men do go to gay bars. But IMO straight people going to gay bars is good in a way. Its kind of like a show of acceptance and comfort with the gay community.