Dnc, The Russians, Intrigue, Suspense!

So meagain suggested I start my own thread about how the DNC rigged the primaries in collusion with the Clinton campaign. I expect this thread to be wildly successful as I'm sure people care more about justice than chasing after a scapegoat (Trump.)

Well it's well known that the Clinton campaign and the DNC committed illegal acts and acts that violated the DNC's charter during the primaries.

Here's a link. There are many, many more articles covering this subject. It is well documented and proven by Wikileaks that this indeed occurred.

So just so we're all on the same page...what we expect from this Russia business is that, somehow, next election they won't be able to influence the election?

We're not saying that Trump is an illegitimate president, however. He will be sworn in and he will serve. He can't be an illegitimate president any more than Hillary was the illegitimate Democratic nominee.

And, just curious, how exactly are we going to stop Russian hackers from influencing the elections? It seems that our government is requesting the people of the US back them going forward, but where exactly are we headed? Are we just to be more mindful citizens? Are they going to start a campaign to encourage us to check our sources? Or are they working on a Ministry of Truth?

You people that have jumped on that bandwagon seem to be asking for something from we the people where Trump and the Russians are concerned. And I'm curious what exactly it is that is being asked of us? It can't possibly be that we don't recognize Trump's presidency, right? Unless we're also going to discuss not recognizing Clinton's nomination and just go back to square one. Which I think would be great. Let's do this election thing as many times as it takes to get it right.

I just want to get straight what we're talking about. My assumption is that we're talking about, somehow, stopping Russia from influencing future elections. I'm game, so long as we're also talking about making sure that the DNC can't rig future elections. And I'm game so long as we go about stopping the Russians from influencing the elections in a way that doesn't prevent us from receiving real news, the likes of which is disseminated by WikiLeaks. The only course of action that seems feasible to me is for the government to start a campaign that encourages the people to be more discriminating.

So just curious, what do we do about Russia and what do we do about the DNC?

 

Like Big Bird, they're all commie bastards according to Fox news and ready to steal money from hard working Americans.

 

There would be no way to prove the hacked emails influenced the elections. I don't think anyone is going to get very far trying to prove Trump's presidency is illegitimate. edit: unless of course he was in collusion with the Russians the entire time and this could be proven.

And I also think we could be potentially entering dangerous territory - if the US government felt that the DNC's emails were hacked by a foreign government and launched an investigation, made it public - fair enough.

but - and maybe i'm entering into slippery slope territory here - but what is to stop them from doing this with any other source provided to any other journalist in the future? If his presidency was declared illegitimate the government would essentially be sending the message that Americans aren't allowed access to certain information provided to certain journalists from certain sources obtained in certain ways - when really, the source and the means of obtainment should be besides the point because sources are supposed to be protected.

The majority of people are going to think that's fine in this case, with the information coming from an oppositional foreign government, but I think the same rationale could be used down the line in other cases. It seems like it could potentially be a blow to the freedom of the press and could set a dangerous precedent.

I'm just thinking out loud here, this is an angle I am just now considering so still formulating my thoughts.


Also, if anything Comey's announcement shortly before the election that he was reopening his investigation on Clinton influenced the election more than anything. She was doing fine in the polls before that happened.

 

^^^^ and that is the very definition of violating the Hatch Act, which in my small and insignificant opinion, is what Comey is guilty of.


When Trump dodges questions about Russia colluding with his election, and yet he doesn't mind tweeting (Jesus help us all with his tweets :rofl: ) about everything else in the world...it leaves a person to question WHY does or would his great big mouth not answer the question.

 

DNC lives matter

 

DNC money matters and if the bastards have to they will adopt quantum encryption, after they give Russia a piece of their mind.

 

We want Bernie!

 

Russian lives matter

 

Russian guns and nuclear weapons matter.

 

mosquitoes lives matter

 

Matter matters.

 

The connection is that both the DNC and the Russians stand accused of tampering with the electoral process.

Expected by whom? I didn't expect it. I expected them to be impartial. Many of the people who sent the DNC their money didn't expect them to be in Hillary's corner either. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was expected to be (gasp!) FAIR. It's really not that difficult of a thing to be, fair. The lawsuit happened because it is illegal to defraud people, which is what they did.

And there is no doubt in my mind that the primaries were rigged in favor of Hillary. Remember when Bernie was winning all of the exit polls and the state media suddenly decided to cancel doing exit polls on the grounds that they were inaccurate? Yeah. Clearly they were inaccurate because somehow Hillary kept winning despite Bernie's overwhelming numbers.

So I guess we're not actually talking about doing anything about any of this. We're all just crying over spilled milk that isn't going to be cleaned up. Fair enough. I just wanted to know what was being expected of us, and I guess you've answered that.

Only it did uncover illegal activities, because the DNC was accepting money from people based on the claim that they were impartial to either candidate, which the leaks proved was not the case.

If you can somehow twist that into being legal... OK fine. What they did was legal. And highly unethical and unacceptable. And we need to start campaigning for massive public support in favor of overhauling our election process so this can't happen again...

...but Russia.

What exactly is the claim against Russia? That they hacked the DNC and exposed their treasonous ways?

 

The claim against Russia is that it intervened in our electoral process to selectively hack or selectively release dirt on one, but not the other, of our political parties, thereby seeking to swing the election in favor of one candidate against the other. The integrity of our electoral process is central to our system of government and the legitimacy of our leaders. For Russia to do such a thing (and the evidence is strong that they did) is, shall we say, pretty bold. The fact that you aren't alarmed and outraged by it and put it on the same plane as the doings of private U.S.citizens, Debbie Wassermann Schultz and company, suggests to me that you are oblivious to the implications of this for international politics and the viability of our republic. You use the term "treasonous" loosely. Treason in the United States consists of givng aid and comfort to the enemy. If anybody conspired with a hostile foreign country to subvert our electoral process, that arguably would be treason. What Debbie Wassermann Schultz et al. discussed doesn't come close. It's no secret that the DNC and the RNC had their favorites in the race, even though they weren't supposed to. I don't think you could get an indictable offense out of what was disclosed about the DNC.

 

The problems with the electoral process go a hell of a lot deeper than Russia, and they start right here at home.

The fact that you are so alarmed by Russian interference suggests to me that you are the one who is oblivious. We tamper in elections all over the world. So does Russia. This isn't breaking news. The only reason they're so desperate for public support against electioneering now is because news is being disseminated so freely and they want to put an end to it.

Many of us were blind to the fact that citizens right here at home, such as DWS, were rigging elections in favor of one candidate over the other. And yes, because I expect so much more from Americans, I am that much more disappointed and outraged at Americans who engage in this kind of activity. I never expected it. It isn't normal and it isn't acceptable.

The greatest enemies of the U.S. are right here at home. DWS et al do give them aid and comfort, and yes, they are treasonous.

 

Good point.

 

I don't see the source as being credible though. Why do I even bother!

 

The real question is: If we are so bent on punishing Russia for doing the same as the U.S., why should we not be bent on the U.S. being punished for doing what Russia has done?