did piers morgan go too far?

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by showmet, May 15, 2004.

  1. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    So the British troops abuse photographs were fakes:
    http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1217377,00.html

    Did Piers Morgan have an axe to grind? It was rather odd having a tabloid with such an anti-government stance on the war, they're all usually so nationalistic, conservative and supportive of the status quo. It would be hard to say that even the Guardian had a deliberately anti-war editorial policy. I always thought it was odd, but I overlooked it, thinking that it wouldn't hurt to have another anti-war voice in the media ... even if it was a tabloid voice, under renowned ex-Sun tosser Piers Morgan.

    Perhaps Morgan was too concerned with his own anti-war prejudice to care about accuracy, and this debacle has done a lot to undermine the exposure of abuses among the UK military. The fact is there are countless investigations ongoing into prisoner abuses and that infamous Red Cross report into British military abuse that the government claims not to have seen. A picture is newsworthy, whereas these dry facts just don't get people as excited as a few action snaps.

    The fact that these pictures were faked does not mean that the UK military is blameless - provably very far from it - but to listen to the news today, the military and government are treating it like a vindication.

    Morgan has a lot to answer for, and has probably done the anti-war movement a big disservice...
     
  2. Man_In_A_Shed

    Man_In_A_Shed Member

    the word tw*t springs to mind.



    And it doesn't mean twit.
     
  3. JOsie

    JOsie Member

    it has been "proved" to be fake by the government...what a shock...many people have been quoted as saying "these pictures were definitely not taken in iraq because the type of vehicle they were taken in was not used during the conflict"...well done to them for being able to tell one vehicle from another from the colour of the walls inside...also, some of the pictures were taken inside buildings like the infamous electrocution one...

    i can understand them saying that the pictures were faked because the vehicle was not in the conflict...but saying they were definitely not taken in iraq sounds like they are too sure of something...how can you possibly know from the inside shots where it is located?

    which brings me to the newly discovered beheading video...5 masked men...one white guy kneeling in front of them...they talk about what we have been told is lots of religious scripture and how the white infidels will pay and so on and so forth...i haven't actually seen the film, nor do i much want to see it...but would it not be fair to claim that this was faked too? there is no concrete proof that it wasn't filmed in a lockup somewhere in the US or even the UK...anyone with a video camera and 5 masks could have filmed it...but not one person is questioning the validity of it...to me it seems like propoganda to justify stepping up the "liberation" of iraq...
     
  4. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    Josie, that Guardian report says that they have found the truck by matching "scratches" inside it to those visible in the pictures... and that the truck in question never left a military base in Lancashire. It seems pretty decisive. If by the "electrocution" one you mean the American pictures, they are all totally genuine, it's just the black and white ones published in the Mirror that are probably fake.
     
  5. JOsie

    JOsie Member

    so which are the fake ones then?
     
  6. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

  7. JOsie

    JOsie Member

    the way it's being reported it's being made out that all the pictures are false...
     
  8. akhc

    akhc Member

    it's vindication for the troops. I'd like to think that they are able to be humane in a very brutal undertaking (war I mean).

    as for vindication for the govt? taking the british public into a war under false pretences? I don't think so.

    the question is why Blair did this.. the answer is simple.. when he retires, he'll go on to the lecture/speech circuit and of course this will be paved with gold by the Bush cronies in America.. should make a packet there.
     
  9. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    No it isn't! That's the point! There's a very famous Red Cross report detailing exactly the kind of treatment that was faked in these photos. There are MOD investigations ongoing, people have been arrested for doing it.

    The pictures were faked, but the actual activity is apparently widespread among the British military.
     
  10. akhc

    akhc Member

    haven't read that report so can't comment directly.. however wasn't there a further report from the red cross that Blair (not that I trust him) was quoting as saying that the brits had been fairer in their treatment of war prisoners since that famous earlier report? from what the media are reporting I think that there have been incidents but that in general on a much smaller scale.

    ideally I should go dig both up and read them.. however I haven't the time/inclination to do that and give Blair a fair break (if indeed the second report does exonerate the brits). I'm going to vote against Labour anyway next election.
     
  11. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

    Well akhc i was going to try and exlain a few things from my humble opion ..but you aint gonna listen ..so whats the point

    I don't think you will like this article ..but hope your not so po faced as not to find it funny..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1218945,00.html

    The pictures were fake the alegations were not...action was and is being taken. The red cross did not intend for its documents to be published they have an obligation of confidentiality between each nation it reports on.

    Peirs morgan was wrong ..just because the may day riots did not happen and we were not swamped by ASs , the paper needed to be filled with something..oh lets put pictures that have been on the back burner for 2 weeks , that will do. Repurcusions - imeasurable.

    I did try and explain a few things..ooops

    Whoever has been buying the paper for 10 pence needs there hands chopping of...(well ok , not quite)
     
  12. akhc

    akhc Member

    ah a Blairite :).. well u're right.. I'm not listening :). I did scan the article quickly and u know what? I disagree with it (actually I thought it was wonderful satire). personally I've already crucified Blair and I hope Labour bomb in the next election.

    no.. I don't trust the Tories either for that matter. I just think the current govt's arrogant use of their majority to dictate matters despite public opinion tiring and we need a change if only to get rid of a few old labour stalwarts.. feel free to agree with or worse admire Blair for his actions.. each of us is free to make up our minds.
     
  13. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

    Blairite..well if the shoe fits i suppose.


    Glad you liked the article.. i do hope you read it properly ... it was a little satirical but not entirely.

    So wich way do you swing , politicaly that is :)

    Public opinion is fine and well... but most of the general public are thick or think with there heart . The bigger picture is not always taken into account. Ruthlesness hurts but sometimes its necessary.

    I am a crap speeler so while finding the spelling for a word i found this.. http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/ni/ni-contents.html if you can't sleep tonight print it off and have a read , i bet you would be out in no time at all.
     
  14. akhc

    akhc Member

    which way do I swing? definitely the right way :). seriously.. at the moment? just left of centre I guess. I don't have a clue who I'd vote for. probably Lib Dem but they won't do well in my constituentcy (Glasgow Hillhead - trad Lab stronghold).

    personally I think the best thing would be a non-lab govt for 4 years.. which in this current climate probably means a Tory govt.. hopefully without a huge majority so that they actually have to think about what they are doing.. not a hung parliament though as I don't think whichever coalition comes into force could do a good job (if u believe any govt can).

    matt.. I disagree with you about taking the bigger picture into account. I think the public isn't thick and that more often than not.. their public decency probably means that their first gut reaction is going to be the right (and sympathetic) one. I actually think the Britain (and the world) is going to pot simply because everyone is looking after their own interests first. ruthlessness is ONLY necessary in reminding politicians that the public can only be duped for so long.. i.e. it's time u got on your horse and left town, blair!
     
  15. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

    I am more positive than that.. The Labour party might be on tough ground at the moment , but imagine if the Tories were in powere now..would they be handling things any better .

    I am not sure how old you are . I personaly am biased because i am not old enough to be aware of what things were like before '97 (Ok i am old enough , but did not care) but never ever would i vote for any other party than Labour .

    As the Tag line goes 'Britain is working ...... '

    I want another 4 years because as childish as it is .... fingers crossed i hope i can say 'i told you so' not you personaly ofcourse but do you know what i mean.???

    I am going on my gut reaction...
     
  16. akhc

    akhc Member

    33 here. I don't think that Labour is doing a good job. In fact I think they are more concerned with presentation and spin than with substance.

    I'll give u an example. I'm a doctor in the NHS. When I see administrators telling us we have to cut our waiting list times for operations by

    1) Scheduling fewer patients for out patient clinics. The fewer patients we see the fewer we list for operations and therefore the waiting list time falls.

    2) Scheduling minor surgery above major surgery. Doing 4 scopes instead of one big operation cuts down lists again.

    This is happening and is a result of Tony Blair's promises to meet targets. It stinks. And worse it makes it harder for me to believe anything the govt says. Then there's their track record with the dossiers produced for justifying the Iraq war. And u say "Britain is working"? I say Britain is being conned into thinking it's working. No I don't believe the Tories are any better in the long term but in the short term they are less corrupt than the Lab govt now.
     
  17. matthew

    matthew Almost sexy

    Some one i know worked in the Department for Work and Pensions ...they were telling me about the high tide of asylum seekers claiming dole...and conning the system. They were (he said) getting preferential treatment. He was almost livid . I said its just a matter of perspective and its not as a big deal as you imagine . I had no facts , figures or anything . He came back and said that he had spoken to his mum (who also works in the DWP) and that she had the complete opposite opinion to him. I don't know wether this little blag will work with you . Do you know any medical forums ... have you checked out what other people think. This may sound patronising (sorry) but chill out . The minority are always the ones that get the biggest voice.



    I suspect your anti war...IMHO your probaly tracking back every problem to Mr Blair ... The price of bacon has gone ... its that bloody Blair . I am probaly being unfair and pigeon holing you unfairly ... its just my humble opion.
     

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