This has always bothered me. How is it practical to say that desire is the root of all humanity's problems, then say "if you want to end suffering, do this." Isn't the want to end suffering a desire for something other than what exists, that is, desire for a different time, different place, different situation. Isn't it rejecting the current moment? Isn't it just desire to end desire? How can one escape this viscious cycle? I don't know...it just seems to make Buddhism a giant paradox and useless. What am I missing?
Hi TrippinBTM, Your totally right. The desire to end desire is the paradox of resisting desire. In Buddhism we do not escape desire, we simply wake up and become aware of it. Buddhism is the middle path where we neither submit nor resist our desires, but develop a compassionate understanding. In Buddhism we simply no longer feed the reactionary monkey mind. Yet at the same time we don't escape the causal-chain of endless action and reaction. Rather, we awaken to a State of Being, a state of oneness with all of Causation. Desire and non-desire.
Very good! To desire to end desire is to continue to desire. Now what can you do? Any way you turn you find desire. You can't even desire to end the desire to end desire! You must be doing something wrong. I think you should take m6's advice and Of course you can't desire to wake up! LOL
That's what kills me! It's like you have to sneak around back and ambush happiness when it least suspects us! Is the path really so narrow? How on earth can you do anything without desire? m6m makes sense, but HOW DO YOU DO IT without desire?
First of all you must realize that desires are different than needs. Needs arise due to the nature of human existence. To maintain the human form, energy must be exchanged with the environment. All humans have needs. Desire is the art of clinging to these needs or the setting up of false needs. Desire is created due to a perceived separation of subject and object. To end desire one must realize the inseparable nature of all things. When it is seen that all things are interrelated, one finds that there is nothing to gain as everything has already been attained. Not seeing the interrelatedness of all things leads to ignore-ance of the true nature of reality. Ignore-ance leads to desire. This doesn’t mean that there are no separate things. It means that separate things can only exist because they are interrelated. One thing needs another to exist. Desire is vanquished when we realize that the ego is also dependant on other things and does not need to chase after one thing or another in order to exist.
You have to take into consideration that terminology is very limited to such explanations. It is very easy to create a paradox when talking of the subject of ending desire and becoming awakened. You really have to feel it to understand this state, because words limit it and confuse it very much so. The enlightened state is sort of like a flowing river. You can feel peace and calm despite what you come in contact with... you can stay cool and have a stronger sense of understanding. It's like a high...you just feel oneness and competeness that lets you face all and everything with an extremely developed sense of peace, compassion, and understanding...you accept things much easier as well. You desire without lust or greed. Remain cool and strong in good and bad times. As Kahlil Gibran said, "Passion and Reason should exalt together, for passion unattended is a flame that burns to its own destruction and reason without passion is a force confining." I hope this helps! Ben.
That's fine and good, but I just don't see how rejecting the present (suffering, as I'm not enlightened) and desiring a different present (enlightenment) is a possible way to attaining enlightenment. To actually get enlightened you have to end desire, but if you don't desire liberation, you won't even try. Meagain is the closest to answering my quesion. Would it be right to consider the desire to end suffering not truly as desire but as a need? Like eating or sleeping?
Yes, that seems to me a good thing. Rather than a want, a need... I think of it that way too, and I see nothing wrong with that, personally. Ben.
The secret is that you are already enlightened. There is no place to go. There is nothing to gain...or lose. You are God playing a mortal human being. You have hidden yourself within the myrid things, beings, and places for something to do. As you live the life of mortal beings you slowly re-member who you are. This is the cosmic game. There is no hurry, no need, no desire is necessary. If you finally discover the secret what would you do? When all beings learn the truth it is time to hide again.
There are different schools of Buddhism. Some are for renunciants, and some take desire as the path. The tantric school of Buddhism, which is mainly yogic, uses desire to produce bliss which lessens attachment to individuality and thereby acheives the goal of desirelessness even without renunciation. Desire is not the root of all problems and I don't think this ever was said anywhere. Attachment and grasping at me and mine are the root of suffering. While not all rich people can be said to be generous, a rich person can be generous without feeling the pinch of desparation. So also a person rich in bliss can put aside personal matters in order to serve the greater good. This is more like the tantric Buddhism of which I am speaking. In tantric Buddhism, one learns to capture the ultimate cosmic nature in ones small and individual actions. One finds that they are part of the stream of life, which when accepted serves more than just ones own small desires. Buddhism is just a word. the reality is something like merging into the ocean of unconditioned mind to preduce nirvana, both on the mental and physical levels. Physical nirvana is not spoken of much, but it too exists. It exists in subtle substances created through deep meditation which supports bliss in the mind. One can use terms like Kundalini or Soma or ojas to try to understand the concept. these substances are created through a natural marriage of desire and transcendence and are the basic laws of all of life. No desire equals death. Only rocks don't desire. Though science if it was poetic enough could probably find desire in covalent atomic bonds or something. Yes, some Buddhists renounce the active life for contemplation. Seeing the paradox of renouncing desire and yet desiring enlightenment is a good thing. Intelligence thrives in nuance, not in blanket generalizations. If I cook you and your friend pasta dishes it would be most fortunate if I could hold the salt for your high blood pressure friend and season it up for lively you. This is the real Buddhist way. The real Buddhist way must be obtainable by all if it is at all true, because nirvana cannot be merely for renunciates or else human life would cease. And so for these people who are still for the world there exists the third wheel turning of the Buddha, the yogic path of tantra.
i think that when people say desire is the root of all evil, it is not just desire itself thats bad. we desire to live, to learn, to love. and are these bad things? i certainly think not. i beleive it is only the desire of power that exists as evil. if humanity did not desire power, what would the world be like? a peacefull utopia? or a chaotic state of anarchy? i beleive that all evil is not truly evil, because the good does not exist without the bad, the positive does not exist without the negative, and this doesnt only apply to humanity, but to every single aspect of the universe itself. think about that for a second. nothing positive exists without a negative to counter it. it is that principle that governs all of existence itself. im not a buddhist, but i can see a great deal of knowledge in that little yin-yang symbol
I agree. Desire can't be wrong. I believe that desire is the major force that played the role of creation. In the beginning there was only Itself and the self knew what Itself was, so it desired for its other half, because it was incomplete. Just like OM and Yin-Yang and the Dreamtime. It's only if what we desire illudes us of ourselves and/or causes us to harm any living thing that makes desire evil. Our desires are evil when they cause us to loose our way on our path in life. Karma catches up to our actions, we learn what we did wrong, and get back to our path. Hopefully then we can attain the liberation. That's how I feel. Ben.
yeah, but the desire to end desire isnt the same kind of desire. it´s about reaching the ultimate enlightenment, escape from the endless cycle of death and re-birth. so these two "desires" are not of the same context. i think that thinking in the way of "it´s all the same desire" is seeing things too superficially and not in the way that they were intended (by The Buddha) to be understood. but hey, that´s why we´re talking about all this right? or maybe i´ve got it all wrong, i dunno!
No, not wrong, you have a good point! It really isn't a "desire" to end the suffering. It's more of a need. Words like desire limit the experience so much and tend to create a paradox with this subject like many others. You must really feel it to understand. Like many great prophets have said, you cannot live by a book or simply by words. The feelings and the experience are needed by discovering them in your own way and your own path. You use books and wise teachings as to realize the greatest potential of yourself and to help find wisdom and your true path as a reference. The experience must be discovered on your own and words cannot even explain the effect or the reality of the matter. Ben.
