Demolishing desire

Desire. It must be a cause, if not the cause, to unhappiness. Here is why. Desire is desire only when it is not fulfilled. Nobody is happy when their desires are not fulfilled. This is a given. This is fact. We go from there. If all desire is unfulfilled, and unfulfilled desires lead to unhappiness, then all desire leads to unhappiness.

Is happiness when all desires are reached? Well, we have seen that even the richest, most powerful people are rarely happy. They must still have desires, possibly desires that they aren't even aware of. But they were supposed to be the most successful people in the world?!? Happiness obviously cannot be reached by material possession, it cannot be reached by fulfilling your desires. Desire is a freight train, it seems it cannot be stopped.

Acceptance. It must be the answer to desire. Here is why. All desire is unfulfilled, therefore all desire is based on fiction rather than fact. The desire is never true, because the desire is never fulfilled. Therefore, it can be concluded that desire is the minds function to deny reality. Denial is the opposite of acceptance. You accept, or you deny. To accept truth, you cannot possibly desire anything, because that would be denial.

This part is purely out of this minds thoughts, not to be taken for truth, as this cannot be known for fact unless it is experienced.

Pure acceptance would mean pure bliss, pure happiness. The mind would not have desires because all desires would be automatically fulfilled in truth. All thought leads to action or no action, depending on desires. If there were no desires, there would be no reason to contemplate, atleast no contemplation that would be based on desire. Action would be immediate, or no action. The mind would decide immediately because it would not desire anything, therefore it would not need to think about anything. It would sit, or stand, or do anything, in pure acceptance of what it is doing, no contemplation, just action, the task would have the minds complete attention. Only when the mind realizes that desire only leads to unhappiness, it can change its pattern of thought to one free of desire.

 

If we attained true happiness by fulfilling desire, we would never be happy. Ever notice how when you get something you want, you soon findd something else you want? Desire is a way for us to stay motivated. Everyone is always trying to get ahead because it seems on a superficial level that is the purtpose of life. This vicious circle was prrgrammed into our heads by our society. And what part of our psyche makes up society? The ego. Therefore, diminish the ego, and greed and desire will crumble. Do not do anything but be, that is how you get away from desire. No advance, no retraction. Just exist and take in, like a stone with eyes and a mind, that is fasicnated by the universe to the point of eternal dumfoundedness and bliss in simply experiencing.

 

One has found that even pure acceptance and being is not a possibility through thought, as it only becomes a desire. Acceptance must be attained instantaneously, like all action that follows. Acceptance is the beginning unto itself, it is pure truth. QUIT WANTING THE DAMN TRUTH BECAUSE ITS ALREADY THERE.

 

If thou desirest truth,
If thou desirest Oneness,
And if thou desirest impartiality,
Thou might already be too far gone to save.

Only though complete and utter acceptance with the fact that you will never get these will you be one step closer to actually achieving them.

It is Hikaru's belief that upon achieving such as mentioned above, he will not know of this acheivement, for it no longer matters to him.

 

Desire and fear are opposites, polarities, duality. To live in duality is to suffer. This specific duality, I believe, is the main if not only cause of our pain. We don't accept the present because we dislike (fear) it, so we desire a new one. Or, conversely, we desire the present so much that we fear losing it, but of course we will always lose it, as all things are transitory. Acceptance of what is is the way, being in the moment without the fear and desire.

 

The mind would have to agree with this statement.

 

Isness: The mind? Do you speak of yours? Hikaru is confused at this notion, and fails to identify the proposition behind it.

 

Not at all. It simply means you are ready to learn about these things.

I condemn the pessimistic tone of your writing. It is the knowledge that you can and will have these things that is the path to a peaceful, active understanding of the interplay of desire, truth, and oneness.

Part of the whole is seeing the other side, the side that is incorrect in its thought. I condemn the acceptance of defeat which you wrongly attach to achievement.

Your message is foul, bloated, and wrong.

You are ready to learn. Try harder. Think deeper.

 

Kharakov:

You claim that DESIRING truth, Oneness, and impartiality will lead to a good life.
This is not so.
DESIRING anything means that you are allocating to yourself a passionate ambition in order to achieve these things.
However, these things are not achieved because of ambition.

In dedicated pursuit of such things, it is easy to condemn others because of their "ignorance" because you believe that you know more than they do about such topics.

If you truly seek Oneness with other people, condeming them is merely another way of separating yourself from them.

Instead, Hikaru invites you to see things in the way that Isness and he see things.

Yes, Oneness, truth, and impartiality are good things. But they are not meant to be desired.

If the path of your life takes you to a fork in the road, and you have the option to make a decision that leads you closer to Oneness and truth, then it is obvious that the most rational choice is the path that leads Closer.

However, to become One, you must not be so ambitious as to create your OWN path at the fork, that leads to what YOU believe to be Oneness. By walking your own path, you distance yourself from all around you. This leads only further away from Oneness.

"I condemn the acceptance of defeat which you wrongly attach to achievement."

Hikaru bids you to look at his words with less BIAS.
His words do not portray defeat.
His words portray acceptance with the fact that if you do find Oneness, truth, and impartiality, it is not because you have desired to find them.

Desire is caused by one's imagination. Imagination stems from one's ego; from one's individuality. Desire occurs when a person seeks to turn what is reality into his imaginations.

Reality is NOT imagination.

True Oneness is found when one has no desire for Oneness, because desire stems from individuality.

Please read Hikaru's words more clearly next time.

Kharatov, Hikaru is ready to learn.
You make yourself out to be ready to teach.
But you are not the teacher.
Reality is the teacher.
Perhaps you ought to become ready to learn as well,
Instead of foolishly believing that you know it all,
Or that you have the divine power to teach truth,
In its complete essence.

Hikaru is ready to learn. Hopefully, you are too. Hikaru wishes you luck with trying harder, and with thinking deeper. He will think deeper as well, but he will not try harder.

 

Hikaru-

Sorry, Can't reply now.. got 4 minutes left on this computer (at a library). My girlfriends coming back into town, so I don't know when I can make it back to hipforums.. gonna glance at your message now. Once again, sorry that I can't get you a speedy reply (hopefully tomorrow, but maybe have to wait until Friday 17th to get on the net).


L8r..

 

Hikaru is good at waiting.

He also wants to point out that discussion is a good thing, and arguing is not. Perhaps you and he could keep this to a level that isn't personally offensive, aye?

 

Hikaru- (back at the library today.. try to make it back tomorrow)
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=argue
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=discuss

My arguements are not personal. My description of ideas and the way they are presented convey what I feel.

I do not. I disagree with your statement that "Thou might already be too far gone to save." Pessimism is the wrong path.

back up one line

We are not the same person. We are separate individuals. However, we are one.

I like this.

They are meant to be understood and cherished.

Me "I condemn the acceptance of defeat which you wrongly attach to achievement."
Accepting that you will never have these things does not bring you closer to having them. Accepting that you can have these things is a step in the correct direction. The attainment of truth is defeated with the acceptance of its unattainability. To be closer to attaining the truth, you must truthfully acknowledge that you are closer to attaining the truth.

Your assumption of bias indicates a bias.

Imagination is part of reality.

Wrong, an individuals desire for oneness can lead them to percieve oneness. You can have both oneness and individuality.

Do not assume that I did not read your words clearly the first time.

True.

You do not recognize that I am reality?

woah.... I don't know it all.. I yes it all. And no some of it.. well.. partially at least, depends on whether I like it or not.

Of course I do. Doesn't everybody?

L8r...

 

Truth must be the ultimate teacher. Truth is all, including imagination, including interpretation. However truth also includes the constant suffering of humanity resulting from desire, or clinging to this imagination. If one accepts truth, one may not need to interpretate everything because everything is already accepted as it is. Interpretation is never what it was before the process of interpreting, belief in any interpretation decieves the mind. This is truth, yet it is not necessary, and if the mind sees through the illusions and knows truth for exxxactly how it is, these interpretations will have to fade away. Nothing is ever wrong, it is misinterpreted by the mind, nobody's fault, truth in action.

 

"We are not the same person. We are separate individuals. However, we are one." - Kharakov

I believe you have missed the definition of Oneness entirely. Oneness implies no individuality.

Furthermore, you are still condemning others for their beliefs, and that is still separation.

"They are meant to be understood and cherished." - Kharakov, on Oneness, etc.

That is true. They are meant to be understood, and they are meant to be cherished, but they are still not meant to be desired.

"Accepting that you will never have these things does not bring you closer to having them." - Kharakov, on Oneness, etc.

Hikaru did not explain this correctly, and must apologize. You don't have to accept the fact that you will never have these things, but you do have to accept the fact that you MAY never have these things. You must be ready to accept that if you don't get these things, then you aren't truly ready for them.

"Your assumption of bias indicates a bias." - Kharakov, on bias.

Hikaru assumes bias because you called his message foul, bloated, and wrong, and assuming that Hikaru does not know what he is talking about. You suggest that Hikaru try harder and think deeper. You are biased, you believe that you know what you speak of, and that Hikaru does not. Hikaru does not believe he knows more about Oneness than you, or than anyone else, but Hikaru DOES know that insults are a tool of discrimination; of separation of oneself from another person. And this, clearly, cannot lead to Oneness. Hikaru wants you to walk the path to Oneness, so he asks that you do not insult him, rather, discuss with him Oneness instead of attacking him.

"True." - Kharakov, on his position of teaching.

If you are ready to teach the mysteries of reality, consciousness, truth, and Oneness, then why are you not One with the rest of humanity?

How can you comprehend AND teach these things, when you clearly have not experienced them.

"You do not recognize that I am reality?" - Kharakov, on reality.

Hikaru does NOT recognize that you are REALITY.
You are REAL, yes.
You are not REALITY, no.

Reality includes everything. It includes you, it includes me, it includes the universe, and many other things.

But you are not REALITY, as you do not encompass any more than yourself.

You are not the universe, nor are you me. This is because we are not One.

And because we are not One, you are in no more of a position to teach than Hikaru is.

"Of course I do. Doesn't everybody?" - Kharakov, on his ability to teach truth.

Doesn't everybody?

Let us ask this question and seek the answer.

Hikaru owns a history book that states that the first pair of Levi's jeans were made from canvas from a ship's sail.

But it is a known fact that the first pair of Levi's jeans were made from hemp, NOT from canvas.

It is also known that history books are biased because the U.S. government does not want people to know the truth about marijuana.

So, they teach things that are false.

Hikaru could say to you "Things that are red are green." However, he would not be teaching reality; he would not be teaching actuality.

You could say to Hikaru "God exists." However, you do not know whether or not you are actually teaching reality.

You are teaching your perceptions of reality,
Not reality itself.

You cannot teach reality, truth, or Oneness,
Because you are none of these things.

You may have "the divine power to teach,"
But you do not have "the divine power to teach reality in its complete essence."
You only have "the divine power to teach your own interpretations of reality."
And interpretations of reality are NOT reality itself.
You do not actually know reality in its complete essence. Only your perceptions of it.

And if you would try to claim that you DO know reality in its complete essence,
Then Hikaru would bid you to explain the mysteries of the universe to him,
As he is as confident that you cannot, as he is confident that he himself cannot.

Hikaru is willing to learn.
But you are not. You are willing to teach "reality, in its complete essence."
If you are not willing to learn,
Then you must either be dogmatic and ignorant, or all-knowing.

"woah.... I don't know it all.. " - Kharakov, on omniscience.

By your own words, you are not all-knowing. Therefore, the only logical choice left is ignorance and dogmatism.

Hikaru does not mean to insult you, Kharakov. He only wishes to allow you to learn, as, by your own admittance, you do not know it all.

"Truth must be the ultimate teacher." - Isness, on truth.

Truth is the only thing that can teach truth, in its complete essence.
Kharakov, neither you nor I can teach truth in its complete essence,
Because we can only percieve the parts of truth that are relevant to us, and we may easily percieve those parts of truth incorrectly.

And thus, Hikaru invites you to join him in learning.

 

However - and very importantly, we have to discriminate between desire and aspiration. Without aspiration for the truth, we will never reach it - even if it is already an integral part of our being.
Desire can be seen in one sense as a kind of distortion of this inner aspiration - rather than wanting the complete truth we are satisfied to pursue fragmentary parts.
And desire can really never be satisfied - it leads only to further desires.

 

The idea of Oneness is diminishing the separations between that which defines you, and that which defines the Universe. The idea of personal "oneness" is our ego acting. The ego is what separates the psyche from the Universe. Diminish the ego, and you diminish the separation.

 

"The idea of Oneness is diminishing the separations between that which defines you, and that which defines the Universe. The idea of personal "oneness" is our ego acting. The ego is what separates the psyche from the Universe. Diminish the ego, and you diminish the separation." - mebesideme

Hikaru agrees completely.



BlackBillBlake:

The term "aspiration" is not a good word to use for what you describe.

Let us suffice to say that,
We ought not to desire truth,
Nor to aspire to it,
But instead, if Fate allows a choice to cross our path,
Where one choice leads toward truth and another leads astray,
We make the truthful choice,
But never ought we to be faced with such a choice,
And desire truth so badly,
That we create our own path,
In the name of what we believe to be truth,
For we do not know truth.

 

The true master of war never draws his sword;the peaceful path away from conflict is always found.

When faced with a choice, it is beneficial to find the correct path through, for everyone involved. Sometimes the best choice is just to walk away, if one cannot rise above the problem and step over it as he would a root on the trail. When the conflict must be dealt with, it is best to plan one's way through beforehand, taking all prior knowledge about the situation into account. Step quickly through, never straying from your plan, and when you arrive on the other side, contamplate the events that happened. You can only know whether your path was true after the fact.

 

"I don't agree - but maybe it's just semantics - definitions etc."

Hikaru believes that it is indeed the definitions that cause this disagreement.