Dealing With Prudes

Have you guys had any unpleasant encounters with judgmental prudes and control freaks who tell you that your sexual values and morals are all wrong? What do you say to them?

I've had my share of these conversations. Some I've handled well. Others, not so good. There can be long-lasting consequences to telling someone to go fuck themselves, if you have to see them on a regular basis. On the other hand, life is too short to spend much of it trying to please those who don't really care about you as a person. Where do you draw the line?

More often than not, I try to avoid these unpleasant conversations by not being very open with people who are unlikely to agree with my values. Maybe I'm being lazy when I do this. I'm definitely not afraid. I guess I'm just tired of dealing with them, and fighting battles that have no outcome.

 

I pretty much speak of sex as sport, and when the old 'sacredness,' routine come knocking, tell 'em to go to church if they want the sacred and go down if they want reality. I've never gotten into much of a stink with folks. The holy ones walk away. It's the phonies who bother me the most. You can tell they're BS, but to call 'em on it is ....er,....ah....trying! Try spending more talk time with your own kind of people/ offer someone a (whatever)job and watch them scurry away.

 

I do this, as much as possible. I don't mean to imply that I deal with this problem all the time. But, depending on where you live and what you do for a living, it can't always be avoided.

I'm guessing that hundreds of people here have dealt with this at least a few times.

 

I was talking with some people at a luncheon and the women next to me were talking about gay marriage. I mentioned being poly, and the lesbians really wanted to shove me back in the closet! I found that ironic, but it taught me to be very discreet and stay in the closet around people I don't know well, outside of poly-friendly events, even around people who face discrimination around their own sexuality. The fact that they face similar challenges does not make them allies!

 

I try to avoid such conversations. If a person is prudish and in no way does it harm my contacts/work or other relationships with them, and they are not going to interfere with my lifestyle, it does not concern me.

 

That reminds me of a conversation I once had with a gay male couple in San Francisco. We were waiting in a long line for a cable car. They were conservative Republicans! Their views were extremely conservative on all controversial issues, except for the one issue that was central to their entire lifestyle! Being from the South, that was about the last thing on earth I expected to encounter in San Francisco!

I told them very little about myself, and kept the conversation focused on them. I wanted to know how they reconciled aspects of their worldview that appeared to me to be glaring contradictions. All I really got out of them was the standard rhetoric on standard conservative Republican positions - on every issue except homosexuality. They were very polite, intelligent, and well-educated, so it was a calm and civilized conversation.

They were an example of your point about the lack of synergy between oppressed social minority groups, but they also seemed to be a good example of people who respect others too much to try and force their opinions on others in an ugly way. I think I could have disagreed with them on a few points without turning the conversation nasty, if I hadn't been so preoccupied with getting them to talk more.

Of course, it is much more tempting to act like a bully towards minority opinions when you think that you are a part of the majority. I think that is what makes conservatives in the South so bold and rude at times. They feel there is safety in numbers.

 

You can often find people who are politically on one side or another apart from one issue.

 

Also, prudes are sexual conservatives and want to foist what they know is right on everyone else. Makes it bad for the sexual liberals who live as a minority in their enclave, such as the south and rural areas.

Guess that's why so many of us pervs have moved to more accepting metropolitan areas where we can be out and even in-yer-face. Ppl where I work know I'm bi and a nudist - we even talk about some of my affairs or what happened at the nude beach. I work with a lot of European immigrants who aren't shocked by this (or even a 65-year-old man who wears a Bikini while on a cruise ship).

And, any visitor to my apt. has to know of my paraphilias because of the fotos and art that are on the walls. (Anybody else have a foto close-up of an anus on their wall? How about feet art) I've learned to just be out there and not try to hide my paraphilias. Surprising how many ppl do the same things, it ain't even unusual.

That is what Kinsey did in the 1940s - actually found out what ppl did sexually and dispelled the lie that everyone was assuming. So, just be matter of fact about your weirdness as if it weren't weird at all (it ain't actually) and if ppl mention it just act surprised that they don't suck toes or lick booty.

 

I have health problems, beliefs, fetishes and secrets (sexual or otherwise) that I would not be able to share with the majority of the general public. I am not sure how this could come as a surprise to anybody.

 

Surprise? No, I wouldn't use that word. I have known all my life that conservatives rule in this part of the country. I knew I was taking a big social risk when I first strayed from their code of conduct. I don't expect to be able to tell everything I know and experience no consequences here. I just want to be able to tell the truth about something, some of the time. Most Southerners want constant reassurance that everyone around them agrees with them on everything.

I don't think the situation is nearly as bad where you live, Face. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. If you haven't lived in this kind of social world, it is surely hard to imagine what it feels like.

Another extreme example: I have an aunt who will not visit the home of anyone who is known to keep alcohol in their house, including me. She has always had this rule, and it appears that none of her relatives (other than me) or her friends think this is the least bit nutty. My grandmother wouldn't use a washing machine on Sunday, wear makeup, or eat in a restaurant that served alcohol. You can image how she reacted to me being a bartender for a summer. It was like I had murdered somebody. I couldn't keep my job a secret from relatives, obviously.

I suppose I should look into moving someplace like Atlanta. I used to be able to find a few like-minded people around here now and then, but as I get older, most of my peers seem to be switching sides in the culture war. I didn't go to college in a large town, but we still partied like the world was going to end tomorrow. We didn't take anything at face value from The Establishment. Where are those sluts now? Married with kids, boring, and uncool. Socializing only at church. They sold out and gave up the fight.

One of my old college friends won't admit in front of her kids any of the wild things she did in college, because she doesn't want her girls to do any of those things in a world that has become more dangerous in various ways. Or at least she thinks it has. Every year, I feel more isolated. I'm not going to change.

I used to be opposed to moving away because I liked the mountains, the beaches, the low crime rate, uncrowded streets, big houses and yards, and the low cost of living. I don't know if it's worth it anymore. It doesn't feel so much like home. I guess I've outgrown it.

That's one of the things that pisses me off the most - the knowledge that the so-called moral leaders, as a group, are no better than the rest of us. Even when a right-wing preacher or politician gets caught in an affair, he will usually try to put a well-crafted conservative spin on it, instead of deciding to shut the fuck up on the subject and stop telling other people how to live. They continue to deny being human, and people continue to believe it.

In other threads, I have heard people here question if anything is left of the original 1960's hip movement, or if it has all been absorbed into the mainstream. From my perspective, the same battles with The Establishment are still raging on, and we are losing. In the heart of Republican country, those who dare to think for themselves instead of following blindly are not much better accepted than they were in 1967.

 

I hear ya. I'm expatriate from rural Mississippi - prolly more backward than Georgia. When I got out of the service I returned to MS instead of St. Louis because I don't care for really cold weather. After a few months workin' on the family oil rig, I ran off to New Orleans. That BTW was a family tradition. My great-grandaddy did his whoring down in N.O. then came back to MS to live his righteous lifestyle. And of course everyone knew of it, just didn't talk of it.

Actually, my family was bit outlaw. Lincoln County was dry (some ppl here may not know that after the national "great experiment" of prohibition was acknowledged as a disastrous failure, the South kept it up.) We had a family recipe for making home brew that I learned as a child and made a few good batches myself over the years. I had a Baptist uncle who wouldn't eat some dish because it had a little wine in the recipe. His sister, my aunt on the other hand was a beer alchy (who made the wine dish) and also carried on the home brew tradition.

You should tell her you quit bartending - Now ur a pole dancer.

Ah, yes - Born Agains. I had a wild second cousin in MS. When we were kids she taught us about "French Kissing" in a hay loft. I ran into her in New Orleans in the late '60s and we ended up in bed after a night out drinking and spent the day fucking until our parts hurt. Now she went back to Christ and last I heard living in Texas and probably would deny she ever did anything like spend the day in bed having wild sex with her cuz.

 

Thank God - or maybe Satan - for New Orleans! Another good thing about Hotlanta - it's much closer to NO than where I live now. Love to visit NO - just don't ever want to sleep below sea level. Even before Katrina, I always insisted on a hotel room there that was third floor or higher. I can't even imagine the horror of dying in a flood in the middle of the night!

I don't know much about Mississippi, but I did enjoy getting drunk in Natchez one time and attending a nighttime Mardi Gras parade. :cheers2:

If any of my older relatives have ever done anything wild and fun, I have heard nothing about it and have seen no evidence.

Well, she does know that I live with my boyfriend, which is still technically illegal here - it just isn't enforced unless somebody makes a complaint. I kind of enjoy knowing how much that bothers her - even though that goes against my personal morals and values. I know it's wrong to enjoy making someone else miserable. But it sure is fun sometimes! :reddevil:

Nearly everyone who knows me is aware that I live with a guy I'm not married to. That is the one morally liberal thing that I never try to hide. I had to draw the line somewhere.

Actually, this friend isn't one of those - she just hangs around people who are, and she plays along with them, more so than I do. At least we can speak openly to each other. She admits to me that she enjoyed the old days and misses them sometimes.

 

Yes, I'm very lucky to be living in Australia. We're a little closer to Europe in our attitudes to morality, I imagine. A lot of families I know talk about sex at the dinner table.

It really sounds like you need to move somewhere more tolerant and forge the sort of life you want to live on your own...it's a liberating experience. You might find that you'll even shake off some of your own prejudices!

At the same time, I do tend to have a far more deviant personality than most of my co-workers, friends and family would care to see. I just keep it hidden, it's easy and it keeps things sacred and special.

 

I would probably find conservatives somewhat easier to tolerate if I didn't have to be around them so much or have my lifestyle so profoundly impacted by their decisions. They are becoming quite cocky and overconfident around here, as they see more clubs and bars close down every year and more churches built. Socially, it's almost at the point now where people over 25 have to go to church to meet people their own age and make friends. Just like I've been told it was in 1950.

I think this is more about the times we are living in than it is about the size of the town. I lived for a while in a much smaller town in the mountains (same state) where there was some pretty wild shit that went down on the weekends. I think the church people were afraid to mess with the underground culture, even though it was small. I have heard is isn't that way there anymore. The city where I am now is the biggest one I've ever lived in (250,000+). I guess that isn't big enough anymore in Republican country.

 

Sounds like someone about to move to Atlanta for some personal freedom.

I love being in the country, woulda loved to take over some land out in the beautiful pine forests of Mississippi where I played as a kid but just couldn't live within the constraints of religious fanatics and prudes who missed half of Jesus' message. (Yeah they have a phoney Christianity there and they like it that way. No drinking wine with sinners and laughing with whores like Jesus did.)

So, I moved to New Orleans. I think every free spirit, unless they can form their own community in the country is destined to move to an urban area where they can be open about who they are.

An alternative would be a college town where the student population outnumbers the actual residents. I lived in Gainesville FL for five years. That is a small town actually smaller than the very backward Ocala down the road, but the influx of students at UF diluted the local inbred mindset and actually gave outlet to all our pervs. I met gays, polyamorous, Humanists, Atheists, Buddhists, bikers, nudists, you name it, they are all represented in a college town.

Of course you have to tolerate all the punk college students and their craziness, but they also improve the ppl watching scenery.

While I was there they made an anti-nudity law to shut down the strip clubs that the jocks and local guys liked to visit.

Unfortunately, the stupid commissioners never considered the wording of their ordinance made life drawing classes illegal as the nude models were paid to pose.

So, I did an open drawing class at the local alternative library and publicised it in the press - pointing out the stupid ordinance and that I was getting paid $20 for each session. I think they still have strip joints around Alachua county - their law mighta been overbroad or unconstitutionally targeting one commercial nude over another.

(BTW, most small town papers don't run pix like they do in a college rag)

 

I am taking a little trip down there next week.

arty:

It wouldn't hurt anything to pick up a free real estate guide...


At the very least, I need to get back into traveling more often. I still know how to put together a low-budget weekend trip. I cut way back when gas was $4 a gallon and the cheapest plane tickets went above $500.

It also works out nicely for a town to have a reputation as a playground for a big city. Key West doesn't have a large population or a university, but has long been one of the wildest places in America. Do you go down there much, Shale?

 

I've lived in Miami for over 30 years and never went down there until July 2008 - and that was by cruise ship. Yep, instead of doing a 4-hour drive I took an ocean liner for 13 hours.

I've been there twice this year - again by cruise ship.

Key West is unique - a history of pirates and scofflaws, it is one of those places where you are allowed to be eccentric. It reminds me of a smaller New Orleans especially in the Faubergs around the French Quarter. Unfortunately, you can't live there on a modest income (well, I did see a project off the beaten path). It is a problem finding affordable housing for the working class to actually live on that island.

 

It's a beautiful drive on a sunny afternoon. I highly recommend it. All the keys have their own unique character. You won't find more beautiful water anywhere in the Caribbean.

I think I had this thread topic on my mind mostly because of Christmas coming up, knowing that I would be around conservative extended family members that I would normally be able to avoid. The worst part turned out to be watching my boyfriend get very little respect from his relatives, because of his failure to pay lip service to the traditional Southern cultural viewpoint. When you love somebody, you want to do something to help out whenever things aren't going well, but it's never good to get in the middle of somebody else's family situation. I didn't say anything.

I've been to Atlanta many times, but not in the last couple of years. It was a great trip. I didn't encounter any prudes there. We made two new friends, including a young stripper who decided she wanted to party with us on her night off (for free). That was a blast.

Midtown is the place to be now. Forget downtown and Underground, unless you want to hang with the 21-25 crowd.

On stage at the Fox Theater, Lady Gaga said that all the people who hate us freaks were on the outside, and we were going to LOCK THE FUCKING DOORS! Hell yeah. :cheers2:

 

What I have found interesting is the more liberal views on sexuality that my dad had. Don't get me wrong, he was a conservative Reptilian and the only time I yelled at him (and surprised both of us - so he shut up) was when he was going on about Ronald Reagan.

However, my dad who was raised in rural Mississippi was more of an outlaw than a redneck. He never went to church that I knew of and was a dope smokin' honky-tonk philanderer in his youth. No tellin' how many half siblings I may have.

Anyhow, when Lorily and I were splitting up and I was driving her from New Orleans to Kansas City where she was enrolled in her Masters program, we visited family at a couple of places.

Lorily and I had lived together for a half year, so my dad and his third wife made up a bed for the two of us together. Seems he shacked up with his third before they finally got married and he saw the hypocrisy of not acknowledging that Lorily and I were legit partners.

Now my mom, from St. Louis was more proper and made me sleep on the couch while Lorily had the guest bedroom.

So, it seems the southerner was less prudish than the urban midwesterner.

 

This week, I've pretty much made up my mind that this year I'm going to be more open and honest in real life about who I am and what I care about. If I suffer some fresh consequences for that, then so be it. Personal freedom isn't free, and it's worth fighting for. This is the right time in my life to do this.

That's not to say that I'm going to throw away all common sense and tell everything I know to everybody, all the time. That would be foolish. I'm just going to upset a few people's mistaken assumptions about how the world works. The prudes haven't done anything to earn my silence.

And I've promised myself that I'm going to do at least one thing every month that seems out of character for me. I'm going to make more new stories, and tell fewer old ones. I'm running out of stories anyway.