Culture Question(S) From America. Hi There! :)

"Make friends with the Hip folks of U.K." it says.

Hey all! How are you? I'd not mind getting to know you folks better!


But today I have a question. It's a culturally sensitive question (I'm not even sure how one calls this type of thing anymore. "political correctness" maybe?? Although it's not at all political.) Anyway...

(oh, and I may have more questions along the way depending on how this goes. )

So, ok, do folks there actually use this phrase anymore, "I tip my hat"? or would anybody ever say it like this "I tip my hat to thee"? I'm trying to write dialogue, whimsical dialogue for a fun/fun-loving Brit character for how they might greet someone...ah, I suppose I could just say "greetings" or "salutations", but I wanted this to have a bit more uniqueness. I don't want to come off as offensive. I want people to adore this character. So, thoughts?

Thanks folks!

 

People might use the phrase 'I tip my hat' in a rhetorical kind of way.A bit tongue in cheek perhaps. But probably not that much. I never use the phrase myself, and very rarely hear it used.

It's something that comes from the past, when society was more strictly hierarchical, and people wore hats that could be tipped.

To 'doff one's cap' is a slight variation. I don't know, but I suspect that comes from the fact that whilst white collar workers and the ruling class used to wear top hats, bowlers or trilby type hats, the working class headgear was traditionally the flat cap. Mostly gone now. You get the odd person who wears a trilby, but by far the most common headgear I see is the baseball cap. We have the USA to thank for that. Personally I have never worn one. I have a trapper hat I wear if it's very cold, but otherwise, like most of the population, prefer to go bear-headed. It's something that has changed over time. My grandparents all wore hats whenever they went out.My parents rarely did.

There are many idiomatic phrases in English that are rapidly going out of usage. And new one's come in. Words such as 'gobsmacked', 'gutted' and many others are new and have all come in during the past 3 decades or so. These new usages tend to lack the charm and character of older ones. 'Cor blimey', 'stone the crows' etc are very rarely heard these days.

 

I don't know anyone who would use that phrase unironically, but to use it in a slightly tongue-in-cheek way would be perfectly normal.

N.B. though- it isn't a greeting.

If you were to greet someone by lifting your hat, you would just lift your hat while saying "Hello". The phrases: "I take my hat off to you", "I doff my hat to", "I tip my hat to" actually mean "I have respect for" as in "I take my hat off to the man who came up with that idea". It isn't something someone would say while actually taking their hat off. This would be like saying "I shake your hand" while shaking someone's hand. A bit odd.

There are certain regional dialects that still use "thee" and "thine", but it isn't common, most people would probably not do it even ironically because it just sounds daft. Anyone who did this regularly would probably be considered incredibly pretentious or tediously "wacky", rather than "Fun-loving". To be honest, that's a fine line you're going to walk. People do adopt formal or outdated anachronisms to make their speech more interesting, but people that do it all the time can end up being really annoying.

Russell Brand's entire persona pretty much is built on walking that line. I personally like him, but he's very divisive, with about equal amounts of people in the pro camp as there are in the "pretentious douche" camp. If you want to write a character that's universally loved, be wary of the wackiness.

Each region of Britain has its own slang with an interesting history and background, rather than just having a "Brit" Character, I'd pick a region and try to make the mannerisms authentic.

 

Good points.

Russell Brand I like but at the same time think he can sometimes seem a bit uninformed in certain areas. But I think his heart is in the right place.

There is as you say no typical 'Brit character' where language goes. Regional dialects have softened quite a lot over the last 100 years or so, but they're still very much a feature. I can't recall ever hearing anyone say 'thee' other than in a playful way.May have heard it back in the mists of time on TV with characters from rural Yorkshire - but I can't think of any other contemporary context.

I think it would be hard to get the dialect of a region right unless you'd spent time hearing the way the people speak. There's always a danger of it turning into a kind of caricature. I think writing in any kind of dialect is a potential mine field for a writer unless they are totally familiar with it. Even then, it can be a struggle for the reader.

 

You may not know that our entire royal family is Indian (with the exception of Prince Charles)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXAu6QSMyj0

 

Yeah, thee's and thous aren't common at all, It's something I used to hear from elderly relatives in Staffordshire, and even then subtly, things like that "th'ar" instead of you are, and "tha" instead of you, never a hard "thee" or "thou", I understand its a feature in Yorkshire and Lancashire as well, probably mainly with older people.

I agree with what you say about caricature, although I think the problem there is slightly offset by the character (presumably) being an Englishman/woman abroad. When in a new environment we often fall back on cultural stereotypes as a kind of badge of honour, or for comfort, or to assert our identity and individuality. Even things that we might normally have scoffed at. As a Londoner, I don't have much of an accent, but a year into living in Manchester I was practically 'avin palpitay-shuns guv'nor wot wiv 'ow cockerney I'd suddenly become for no fack-in reason

A Brit abroad might be more inclined to fall into stereotypical behaviours as a kind of social tool, ironically playing up their otherness in order to ingratiate themselves with others. Especially in America where, from what I understand, Englishness has a certain novelty to it.

But aye, making the character into one from a very specific location with a very specific dialect is a bit of a minefield. I still think that tying some aspects of their speech pattern broadly to a region and doing a touch of research could add authenticity.

The worst thing to do would be just to have a character described as broadly "English" who talks in a nonsensical mixture of cockney rhyming slang and achingly formal language, which is a trap a lot of writers fall into in a kind of "They either live in castles or gutters or both" kind of way.

 

I would say I tip my hat to you.
Just to sound different. If I say the same greetings to someone all the time I will change it up to stop the repetitiveness.

 

Only time I've seen a gentleman tip his hat, with or without a hat! Is when a Hurst goes past, and they tend to be of a certain age!

 

omgsh, folks i love this!! (eh, ok, i tend to get overenthusiastic, but this is genuine)

I feel like I was going for what penguinsfan13 said, just to make this character stand out from the rest of the group. The rest of his/her dialogue is pretty "softened", as described by blackbillblake, but there is certainly a bit of "caricature" (autophobe2e) about this character. hehe It comes out to put people at ease and to have a good time, and any "cockneyed" references are mere fun for all! A truly good humored type character.

ohhh ho ho! lol eek! i almost...but then I...so "bloke" is only for men? (new question) Could it be used to refer to a mixed group, or is it only for a group of men (blokes)??

Thanks again all! I'll comment individually if i have more thoughts.
Here's a little background-I was part of a primarily Brit group for a little less than a year and picked up on a lot of things, but not everything. I think most were from the midlands who spoke to me, and a few from up north, like north north (trying to respect privacy, but i understand there might be some ambiguity with "north" vs "true north" idk!). I feel like one lived in London for awhile, but I could be mistaken this with the book I read. But so that is primarily my influence.

You're all a good lot! I hope I can enjoy some time here on Hip with you.

 

yeah. tongue-in-cheek. Part of me wants to consider the first impression part of it (respect), but on the other hand, this character treats everyone like lifelong friends.
I understand it isn't most known as a greeting, so that was my other hesitation, but I picked it upfrom somewhere, and well, it does include it as a greeting in some online definitions.

yes yes, total novelty. I for one am quite obsessed. Please forgive me for any excessive excitement or squeals about it.

but yeah, i have heard that too, as a common mistake. hehe isn't the internet wonderful for dispelling these myths though?!

I don't know what this means. Hurst?

 

No problems, glad to be of help

Is this for a script or a story? it might help to know more about what you're after

Bloke is explicitly male, in fact it can be used as an adjective: "blokey" meaning "manly/boisterous". No-one would really be shocked if someone used it to refer to a mixed group though, but other things would be less unusual.

Also, a hearse is a car/carriage for carrying a coffin to a funeral. Older people sometimes tend to remove their hats as a sign of respect when they pass by.

 

Ah, once again, no likes left. It's a story. I am pretty shy about the details though. Because, It's based on a true story . But when I think about it, being respectful to those people, as much as I can, it might help to discuss some things. It's for me right now though. I still have to sort out what it is I want to say exactly. Hell, I may even change it entirely, but I want to preserve the things that have been meaningful to me. Eh, so yeah. Idk! Lol

Ohhh a hearse?! It was spelled funny or just differently. So, ok, expression during funerals maybe. Got it.

Ohhh and ok, so my one British friend didn't bat an eye at either of these, but I think it was also because there was so much at the time. Probably silently laughed at my silliness, or well, I did put a note that I(the author) is an idiot, or "dork" I think I said. Lol

Uhhh, but yeah, in my context, blokes I used for the mixed group, but this was just my hmm is it daft? My daft or ___ way of quickly jotting down my thoughts for the draft version.

 

I can't recall ever seeing or hearing 'blokes' used for a mixed group. Not saying it is never used that way, just that I can't think of any examples.

 

Yeah, me neither, I'm just saying I wouldn't be totally blown away if it happened. Another option would be better.

 

its common for someone around here to say "hey guys" to a mixed group.
dont see a big difference for blokes.

 

I think "Hey guys" would be much more likely.

 

It's a question of usage of words. 'Blokes' simply isn't used like 'guys' in America. It would be more common nowadays to hear 'guys' used in the UK in the American way, at least in some circles. In nearly 6 decades I never heard 'bloke' refer to anything but a man, and 'blokes' for men.

Only exceptional or particular usage is that in some parts of the British Army, a 'bloke' means a sergeant.
So a quartermaster sergeant is a 'quarter bloke' a drill sergeant a 'drill bloke' etc.

 

"Hey guys"? Wont work. I was using it to talk about a group, rather than address them. In context, at this point, the character is a little fed up but still being playful. Is there a word for this? I mean, "guys" is too generic, too emotionless, if you will. Blokes seems to cover it, except for the women aspect.

 

Talking about a group rather than to them? as in "those guys" rather than "you guys"?

Lot, mob, crowd, gang, gaggle, bunch.

Again, it's a tricky line to walk, but we often use swearing at each other as a sign of affection and camaraderie, so, for example, I wouldn't hesitate to call a group of people I quite like "A shower of bastards" or "bunch of twats"

 

ran out of likes again.

i have some follow-up comments,...can I just message you (oops, or well, i did). Please let me know if you'd rather not use PMs though.
Ok, well I just wrote this in case you see it first. Good day!