theres no way to ask without it sounding like I'm attacking christianity so.... I believe in a God, a kind God, but I'm not sure which one. I went to Christian websites/church and heard how nice God was. But is he? How can God possibly be kind if he kills babies (exod 11:4-6, exod 12:12), or children (2 kings 2:23-24)? How can anyone possibly rationalize this so as to make it seem as though anyone but Satan could do these things?
Basically the Christian answer boils down to this: Just get on your knees and be completely thankful that YOU are not being tortured right now. And if you pray hard enough and accept what I wish you to, you will not be tortured forever when you die. If you do not accept Christ you will suffer, forever. FOREVER. If you died before you could accept him, (e.g. infants, miscarraiges) too bad. If you lived in a culture that has not heard of him, too bad. But you, dear listener, HAVE heard of him now that means you will be lifted out of the pool of searing hot lava ripping at your screaming searing soul for eternity... but only if you DO EXACTLY WHAT I TELL YOU TO.
Part of the problem is that Man has defined God in his terms, he ascribed human attributes to that which doesnot have human attributes. So in the above case it was not God who was doing those things but rather the priests who told them to do them in his name. As far as salvation goes, you'll have to work that one out for yourself.
im not well read in the Bible, but i would like to see some scriptures where Jesus [not Paul or any other] says that.... We are all submitted to God's mercy, and we do not know what that is...
Wrong. Infants and miscarriages are innocent. They go to heaven automaticly, so stop spreading half-knowledge. And God has revealed himself to everyone at some point, if they reject Him, that's their fault. God's a very just God. Now, that also explains the babies he's 'killed'. They went to heaven anyways, which is more like a blessing for them (heaven is MUCH better than this trash can we call 'Earth' ). He's a very good and just God, a loving father. He helps you out of trouble, he blesses his loyal servants. He loves everybody, sinner or righteous, it's SIN itself he hates, not the one sinning (as many falsely interpret). I even figured out that he was watching over me even before i got saved.
You are completely wrong about this. If someone rejects God, it is God's fault for not being good enough. Not that anyone has the choice of rejecting God. It's hell or heaven, either way, you're gonna be with God.
God heals people on evangelisations... Most people believe, but many still reject him. (evangelisations happen all around the world) He sacrificed his innocent, sinless Son, so that we could be healed, so that we could have a relationship with him, so that we could be free of sin, so that we could know that he loves us. How could he not be good enough?
Then what the hell is original sin? You saying it's ok to kill babies, because they're better off in heaven? This is just more insane rationalization.
......WHAT? sorry ryu, but i just can't wrap my mind around that logic. i think lovesgravity has brought up a very good thread topic. the god of the old testament seemed to be smiting whole populations, women & children included, left right and centre. how is that justified? because the babies go to heaven? are babies' deaths nowadays justified in the same way? technically, according to your thinking, a baby's death now shouldn't be seen as as much of a tragedy as a mature human being's death, because the baby has a guaranteed ticket to heaven where the mature person does not. i'll tell you, this is one of the major things that prevents me from believing in the christian god (mostly the OT god, as NT Father has done a 180): wrath and unjustified killing of innocent human beings, jealousy and nonsensical requests. ..... ie: animal sacrifices? have we not progressed past this point? yes. i cannot believe in a god that [once] requested that his human beings slaughter animals and burn them on altars, whilst spilling the collected blood about the altar on specified sides and directions, and so on and so forth. it makes no sense, and my gut tells me that if there is a god, it is not a god that would request us to perform strange and barbaric practices for his viewing pleasure. sophia
It wasn't even God who killed the babies, it was the curse caused by sin. (that's why 'killed' was in quotation marks.) Abortion is murder.
The baby's innocent, it doesn't know better. An adult, however, isn't. They're soul's developed enough by then, they should know what they're doing. And what do you mean eith 'insane rationalization' ?
"Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel..." (I Chronicles 21:12) "So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men." (I Chronicles 21:14) "And there came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots..." (II Chronicles 14:9) So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled. (II Chronicles 14:12) "And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts." (Exodus 11:4-5) ^ what about the firstborn of beasts? "But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such a one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea: That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same." (Psalms 68:21-23) is god sadistic?
"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." (I Samuel 6:19) doesn't this pretty much sum up the idea of.... christianity is based upon fear? thou SHALT love thy father with all thy heart! clearly, that's the only option, if this kind of stuff is the consequence. if i knew this god existed, and was stuck in this sort of world, i'd 'love' him too.
The beasts went to heaven too. No. But his 'killings' were righteous. The people in Israel were cursed beccaus of sin, this is more of a proof to show that he exists, and one shouldn't sin against him. If he wouldn't have shown them this, they wouldn't have believed in him, or thought that they can do ANYTHING without consequences. If it wasn't for the plagues, more people would have gone to hades (since they didn't believe). It was because of sin that the plagues existed.
okay, but you say we have free will. that god gave us free will to choose him or not. clearly in the OT he didn't believe in that: "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6) "Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9) you should kill the unbeliever? holy moly. good thing that doesn't stand anymore eh? is it right of god to be allowing people to go about killing unbelievers? or should that not be the responsibility of god himself, when the person dies, and undergoes judgement before god?
but the OT clearly states that god is the source of evil, including all the evil sent upon the people in the quotes passages above.
This was how it was in OT times, all these things changed in the NT. non-believers in OT times would have spread unbelief, causing more people to go to hades. God doesn't want so many people to go there.
First, you didn't address the "original sin" problem: the baby is not innocent according to your own dogma. Second, insane rationalization means you've lost sight of reality in your attempt to make a bloodthirsty God's actions look A-OK. Like when a kidnapping victim ends up trying to make their captor seem like he's not so bad. It's called Stockholm Syndrome, sympathizing with your oppressor. Third, I want to say I object to you're calling this world a "trash can". Only someone who was born and raised in a city and who rarely even sees nature (let alone understand anything about it) could say that. It's the cities that are trash cans, the natural world is a gift.
