Discussion in 'Poetry' started by Bhaskar, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    What is it that makes you cry
    your hair is still yellow
    and your skin is still fair
    your daddy still runs a farm in Rumley, Texas.
    He has cows and sheep and pigs and chickens
    and sometimes turkeys too...
    They're so much fun to play with!
    So why is it
    that whenever you dine with me,
    Texas drips from your eyes?
  2. Hippievixen

    Hippievixen Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Oh man, I LOVE this one.

    Especially the last three lines...

    Take it from a Texas native... I miss it when I leave it and I nearly kiss the ground when I return.

    Confession: Whenever I land at the airport back in Texas, I let out a yee-haw.

    Lovely work, Bhaskar. *poetic hugz*

  3. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    My University roommate is from Texas, and sometimes when I'm lying in bed trying to fall asleep I will make her tell me all about her life back home. Then she shows me the pictures that she keeps stored on her laptop, of family anfd friends and all looks very beautiful. And she has amazing cowboy boots I want to steal! I should definately show her this poem.

    Thanks :)
  4. KittenX

    KittenX Purrrific

    Certainly an emotive piece...struck a chord, though not a Texan one, but still. Your use of repetition was very effective.
  5. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    Thanks all, I am surprised and pleased that I struck a chord in you. I have never been to texas, nor have I many close friends who speak pasionately about it. When I wrote this actually my intent was very very different, it was a comment on factory farms, on people who love animals and still eat meat. Somehow meat eating in my mind was very strongly associated with Texas, I am afraid.

    But, after reading your loving responses, I have a different image in my head, for it seems just like my country, which is a haven of beauty and ugliness alike, what each person gets from their experience of a place depends on what they bring into it.

    Thank you for reminding me that beauty shines everywhere, even in a derisive poem that brought a whiff of the memories of home to someone far away.
  6. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    Oh. Well I feel a little crushed now, because I am a person who loves animals and still eats meat. But then I love plants and flowers, and I eat them too. And I love people and, well, I don't eat them...but I often hurt them, unintentionally. You've made me think now, Bhaskar! I felt I had to re-read your poem again, in light of what you have said since I last looked upon it. By the way, my roommate liked the poem lots :) X
  7. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    Im glad I made you think.

    Life survives on life. Its the law of nature. However, within that rule, we can find a way to cause minimal hurt. Jains, for example, would only eat fruit or vegetables that fall from trees. We don't need to kill animals because we can survive on a vegetarian diet. Not only survive, vegetarians are actually healthier, if they plan their diet correctly. By eating meat you take more than you need, harm yourself and harm the world. Also think of the conditions in factory farms and if you want to support those atrocities. Think of the tremendous pollution they cause. If we stopped eating beef, there would be enough food grains to feed all people on earth, this grain is instead used to feed factory cows for slaughter.

    Think about it.
  8. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

    hehe i was reading and thought it had to do with vegetarians but everyone else's posts made me re read it thinking about texas or something

    oh well, i eat meat caus it tastes nice. and i care about animals. But i HATE vegetarian food, so yeh. i just cant stand it, i find it so monotonous, no matter what people say.
  9. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    So basically you are a slave to your own tongue...

    There is so much variety in vegetarian food. Have you tried Indian food? In India alone there are more than 50 styles of vegetarian cuisine, each very very distinctive. There is wonderful vegetarian thai food and chinese food. In fact almost any style of cooking can be adapted to it. But I guess you havent taken the time to research it, so you can stick to your flimsy excuse.

    I have heard people explain their reasons for eating meat, some of them are almost acceptable, at least understandable. But the people who say, I eat it because it tastes good...I have great contempt for such craven weaklings, who cannot even control their own senses.
  10. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

    One of the vegetarian queisines i hate the msot actually is indian vegetarian. my mum tries to get me to eat a whoel range of vegetarian foods, and the simple fact is that while i can eat vegetarian meals every now and then, someteims, i will just need meat, and i will not settle for vegetarian all the time.

    What is wrong with giving in to your senses? why the fuck would we have them if we are meant to ignore them?
  11. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    I never said we must ignore them. However, we need to control our senses, to hold them in sway. Use them intelligently. Otherwise you are a slave to your body and your desires. What if you start craving meat one day and you cannot find any around the house and all the shops are closed? You lose your peace of mind. You go crazy with desire. At times you end up compromising your values to satisfy that craving.

    Freedom is not only being able to do everything you desire. It is also the ability to not do everything you desire.
  12. gdhmomchild

    gdhmomchild Duct tape abuser

    Freedom is not only being able to do everything you desire. It is also the ability to not do everything you desire.

    I'll agree with this,lol, but I think you went a bit over the top with some of the rest. I'm a meat eater. I don't see anything wrong with that choice just as I don't see anything wrong if you decide to be a vegetarian. The fact is, that we have the ability and resourses to feed many more in the world than are getting this aid. Blame governments but not on the meat eating population. We are all guilty of consumerism that comes from factories.
  13. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    I agree with you, Bhaskar, and also Stoner, and also Momchild! You have all said things I can emphathise or sympathise with, perspectives I hold and perspectives I can merely identify with. I eat meat, I eat vegetables...I eat the edible and to my taste, basically. I excercise self-control and believe one should (I studied Moral Philosophy, and thus could bore you silly with all those intelletual arguments on why retraint is paramount to the inteligent individual who considers themselves to be 'free'). But I also, on occassion, like to indulge my senses; I believe that a little recklessness is good for the Soul ;) Ultimately I could not discriminate: I must eat plants and animals alike, as both are beneath me, as human being, in the food chain. No-one is immune to nature, no matter how intellectual they are. Even Einstein had to take a shit from time to time!
  14. browneydgrl

    browneydgrl Member

    its funny you say a sophomore in high school i did a research paper on factory farming and it broke my heart...i didnt eat meat for four years.

    i also lived in texas for 3 yrs, and i can sympathize with the above posters that read a different meaning in your poem. i thought your poem was beautiful, in all the ways it was interpreted. very nice job.
  15. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    Thanks browneyedgirl.

    Firebelle...Einstein was vegetarian. It is not a question of discrimination at all, it is a question of doing to least damage to others. What if an executioner were to say I will not discriminate, I will kill all the prisoners wether or not they were sentenced to death?

    Do you even know the way animals are treated in farms today? They don't have room to walk, they grow so weak and malnourished that often when they are finaly let out their legs break under them or they just collapse from sickness. When this happens they are beaten and dragged by their ears and thrown out in the dump to die slowly.

    I suggest you watch a documentary clled peaceable kingdom (I'd be happy to mail you a copy of it) and once you see the conditions of the animals in the farms maybe you will reconsider your choices.

    Also note that freerange is not much better. A free range chicken has about 2 feet more space in its cage. Other than that the treatment is the same.

    And organic meat isnt better either. It only means that they didnt spray pesticide around the animals feed bins (which is a standard factory farm practise) and so it is healthier for humans to consume.
  16. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    The point I was making about Einstein is that, even if he chose to be vegetarian and thus did not give in to his senses in terms of eating meat, then he must still have had to give in to his senses in other I mentioned, the shit thing (that was a crude example I know, I'm sorry). No matter how intelligent a being he may have been, he was still an animal and as such was a puppet of nature...we all one is immune to basic neccessity and instinct.

    I am aware of the battery farm thing, of course I don't know much because I do not practice animal cruelty and therefore have no first-hand experience of it...I have seen such documentaries as you describe, though, and what I have seen appalls me. But the living conditions prior to the death of the animals I eat isn't the real isssue, is it? Like you said, it's about minimising the suffering of animals and one way to do this as being not to eat them! Because I sense that, even if I kept chickens in a palace and fed them golden corn, you would not be happy if at the end of it I were to slay and consume them?

    I don't expect this to make much difference to you, but I only eat chicken. I don't eat any other meat, so it is only my little feathered friends who need run from me! But that is not the point, I know.

    Also (and what a flimsy argument!) I may be a carnivorous monster (to chickens, anyway) but I can also be kind. Today I went to the local RSPCA (an animal shelter for the sick and abandoned creatures of this world) and I adopted some pets :) And I recognise that I can't take them all home with me, so I have decided to donate some of the food and toys of my existing pets, who live in great comfort, to help those less fortunate. Oh my halo!
  17. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    Actually it does make a difference wether the animals live in a batteyr cage or in good conditions before you eat them. At least that little amount of respect is given to them, at least while they are alive they are allowed to live comfortably. Abu Ghraib is heavenly compared to this. I would not be happy with the palace chickens being eaten, but I wouldn't feel quite as terrible about it, at least while they were alive they were happy.

    We are not immune to necessity, I agree. Where I differ is in thinking that eating meat is a necessity. Not only is it not necessary it is bad for your health.

    While it is good you avoid other meats and ony eat chicken, you ought ot know that poultry is not protected by the humne slaughter laws and therefore thei conditions are far worse than others. You also should know that a vast majority (something lke 80%)of the chickens coming through the factory system are infected with campylobacter. A good 20% are infected with salmonella.

    I appreciate your large heartedness and love for animals, I never doubted it. I suggest you try adopting a chicken and after a month or two, kill it and eat it. If you can do that, I have no argument with you. People who eat meat should be able to see their animals being killed.
  18. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    Well then, if I had a palace and some golden corn I would definately take on endless numbers of chickens :) I too believe that animals should have the right to a comfortable existence, no matter how short that existence may be.

    I don't think eating meat is a necessity as such, but I really couldn't say because I have never been deprived of meat for any real length of time. Occasionally, if I feel weak or look pale, I will be encouraged to eat family believe I should eat steaks, but I always refuse! They are sure then that I would never feel so lethargic. I didn't know meat was unhealthy, I cannot see how (apart from instances of the meat being infected, as you say) as meat just adds variation to one's diet, surely?

    I would love to adopt a chicken, or even chickens plural, but I'm afraid if I did that I wouldn't have the chance to kill it after a month or two, dog would probably do that :( My ex-boyfriend is a farmer and was used to killing animals, or seeing them killed, for food and otherwise...I became quite used to seeing pigs slaughtered either for meat or before incineration, I saw cows being injected and shot, I saw fowl strangled and rats speared with pitchforks during my time with him...and I still see these things, as we remain friends and I often visit the farm. And I hated it, but to my disgust I found myself accepting it is a part of just lose the shock factor. I could never kill an animal, and it is deeply hypocritical...if chickens did not come chopped and shaped, covered in breadcrumbs or cut into fillets and bound in plastic, then I would never eat them. And who knows? Maybe if supermarket chains started selling bits of humans wrapped in cellophane, we would see an increase in the consumption of human flesh!
  19. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    If you see what is wrong with what you do, the inherent contradiction, then why do you still do it?

    How is it unhealthy to eat meat? If it isnt enough that a vast majority of it carries disease, various health problems that pose a greater risk to nonvegetarians are:
    Heart disease
    Diverticular Disease
    Gall Stones
    Kidney Stones
    hiatus hernia
    varicose veins
    rheumatoid arthritis
    nephrotic syndrome
    food poisoning

    This is by no means a comprehensive list. You can see details and examine my sources and find the bibliographic citations to the actual medical research that went into all of it here:
  20. Firebelle

    Firebelle Member

    Blimey, I don't feel too good after reading that list! The world is full of think people who smoke cigarettes don't know the damage they are doing to themselves? Because literally everywhere, in black and white, is the message that SMOKING KILLS! And people do it anyway.

    The point is people will do as they please, and for whatever reason they please, to the detriment of themselves and those around them. Some People eat meat. Some people smoke. Some people try stuffing electrodes up themselves.

    I never realised just how passionate you were about vegetarianism (sp?) I admire you for being so well informed...your argument against meat-eating is strong and I find myself faltering in my justifications...good luck in your mission, my brother! But I have a feeling I will always be a carnivore, unless something far more drastic happens. And some of the things on your list, while quite plausible, are by no means infallible. I have so many fat vegetarian friends (and I do not use the word 'fat' lightly!) that the idea of meat causing obesity is not one I would take all that seriously. Obesity is likely to be caused by meat that is fried or 'fastfood', such as bacon or McDonald's e.t.c...not very healthy. But plenty of meat, mainly white meat like chicken, turkey and similar can be cooked so that they are very healthy and virtually devoid of fat, whilst meats like liver and kidney contain lots of nutrients for the body. It's a tricky topic I think, one that is spherical in its dimensions.

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