Could This Be The Start Of World War Three?

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I appreciate that there are another couple of threads to do with this crisis.
But with this thread I have started I am asking a specific question with a poll.
This keeping in mind the below news and from what is being said on TV.
With Putin saying about horrible stuff he has got to use if he wants.

This is all looking very serious indeed.
Putin wants Ukrain and will take it.
Next it could well be Poland and Romania and Slovakia and the rest who used to be under the Russian yoke.
Make no mistake.
This could lead to World War Three.
Particularly if NATO gets involved because Putin puts his Jack Boots inside a NATO Country.
If there is a God.
Then please heaven help us!

Furious Putin prepares to use 'father of all bombs' as brave Ukrainians hold up advance | Daily Mail Online

Furious Putin prepares to use 'father of all bombs' as brave Ukrainians hold up advance:
West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.

Russia could use savage superweapons that vaporize bodies and crush internal organs if their assault of Ukraine becomes bogged down, Western officials warned tonight.

They fear Vladimir Putin could resort to high-power thermobaric weapons - dubbed the 'father of all bombs' - as brave Ukrainians resist his attempts to take control of Kyiv.

 

When it comes to Europe the quick answer is



Not in Europe anyway

An attack by Russia on any NATO member will activate Article 5 of the Nato Charter .

That basically means an attack on any Nato member is an attack on all members . This would automatically involve the USA and the UK with both having nuclear weapons at their disposal . Even Putin would not risk that .

So there is no debate here .

 

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Of course there is a debate to be had here Captain.
If I may say.
With all due respect.
That is a rather arrogant attitude to just sweep the possibility of this turning into World War Three aside.
One just cannot rule out the fact that once Putin captures Ukrain then make no mistake.
That may embolden him to send boots into all of the other countries which used to be part of the Russian Block.
Problem is that Putin is a rather deranged megalomaniac with some screws loose who will stop at NOTHING to have his way in respect of dominating Europe.
Who knows really where this may lead considering that the world is full of nuclear bombs.

UK Home | Daily Mail Online

Putin reveals plan to dominate Europe beyond Ukraine:
Neighbours Finland and Sweden are warned they will face 'military and political consequences' if they join NATO

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Boris tells Nato that Putin wants to tear up the post-Cold War world | Daily Mail Online

Boris tells Nato that Putin wants to tear up the post-Cold War world: PM warns Russian leader's ambitions might not stop at Ukraine as he announces personal sanctions against him and his foreign minister Sergei Lavrov

• Prime Minister Boris Johnson said Putin was trying to recreate the Soviet Union
• He described invading Ukraine as 'mission to overturn the post-Cold War order'
• Mr Johnson made the comments as he pledged to issue Putin with sanctions

By Dan Sales

Published: 21:33, 25 February 2022 | Updated: 00:07, 26 February 2022

Boris Johnson said today Vladimir Putin was on a 'revanchist mission to overturn the post-Cold War order'.

The Prime Minister said the Russian president was trying to wind back the clock to the Soviet Union.

He made the comments as he pledged to level personal sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin and his foreign minister Sergei Lavrov to echo those announced by the EU.

 

Just wont happen for the reason stated

 

Collective defence - Article 5



The principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATO’s founding treaty. It remains a unique and enduring principle that binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and setting a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.

• Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
• The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
• NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
• NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, including in response to the situation in Syria and the Russian attack on Ukraine.
• NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.

Source NATO

 

That's a firm NO, hope you're right.

 

I hope Captain is right as well Jimanden.
All I am saying is the way things are one just CANNOT rule a World War Out.
Extremely unlikely.
Sure.
But all the same a very small possibility.
Particularly when dealing with someone like Putin who is absolutely not all there with his brain.

 

Since I have been kindly accused me of being arrogant ,I will quantify my answer further

FACT

There has been no conflict since 1945 directly engaging the US and the USSR/Russia . This in parts is due to the effectiveness of the Nuclear deterrent . The Status Quo has not changed as far as I can see. There have been plenty of what are called proxy wars whereby one or both parties are represented via weapons sales,advisors,training etc but not by the use of fighting troops by both in the same conflict . If you disagree then please tell me .

The major proxy wars that have commenced since 1945 are as follows . I apologise if I miss any out as this is just off top of my head .

The Korean War 25th June 1950 - 27th July 1953
The Suez Crisis 29th October 1956- 7th November 1956
Te Vietnam War 1st November 1955- 30th April 1975
The Indo Pakistan War 1965 An earlier war as well in 1947/8
6 Day War 5th June 1967 - 10th June 1967
Yom Kippur War 6th October 1973- 25th October 1973
The Lebanon War - 13th April 1975 - 13th October 1990
Soviet Afghanistan War 24th December 1979- 15th February 1989
Iran Iraq War 22nd September 1980 -20th August 1988
The Falklands War 2nd April 1982 - 14th June 1982
Sudan War 1983-2005
First Gulf War 2nd August 1990 -28th February 1991
Bosnia War 6th April 1992 - 14th December 1995
Chechen War 26th August 1999- 16th April 2009
Afghanistan War 7th October 2001- 30th August 2021
2nd Gulf War 20th March 2003- 15th December 2011
Georgian War 1st August 2008 - 12th August 2008
Russo Ukrainian War 20th February 2014 and still ongoing 2022?

Cold War - Not listed as it never turned Hot thankfully and for the same reason the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1963

None of the above wars involved a direct clash by the US and USSR /Russia . If anyone disagrees please advise with proof as I like to be educated .

Thats the reason there will be no WW3 as neither side that has plenty of nuclear weapons will directly engage .With the exception of accidental incidents that have ben settled after . IIRC there was one in the Korean war whereby an American fighter plane hit a Soviet Air base in mistake .

Thats why the US will not engage in the current Ukraine Crisis and this has been confirmed very recently by the US President

Therefore I conclude that the topic is not debateable as it will never happen .

 

Putin will not engage the USA as long as it has Nuclear capability as he will not want to risk destroying the very thing he is trying to build ie A New Imperial Russia

 

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Of course the topic is debatable.
To say otherwise is both arrogant and stupid.
In my opinion!

Even the former President of Ukraine agrees with me.
So there!

Why Russia invaded Ukraine and what it may mean for the world

Is this the start of World War III?
Zelenskyy tweeted Thursday that

"Russia treacherously attacked our state in the morning, as Nazi Germany did in 2#WW years. As of today, our countries are on different sides of world history."

The former prime minister of Ukraine Oleksiy Honcharuk said the Russian invasion could spark a third world war.

Honcharuk said called Thursday's attacks a "critical moment" and claimed Putin only "recognizes power" and violence among the countries won't stop, The Independent reported. Honcharuk served as prime minister between 2019 and 2020.

“It could be the start of a third world war.
We should realize it, because Putin will not stop," Honcharuk said.

...

 

I disagree

There have been no wars since 1945 engaging the USA and USSR/Russia .

There is no reason that this will change as the Status Quo has not changed .

If you disagree then kindly advise me

 

With the greatest of respect ,not since 1945 it hasn't

The nuclear deterrent each side has ,has prevented them clashing in direct conflict .

 

To a large extent Captain, what you say there has been so true.
Up to now!
BUT.
As Zen says there, things could get out of hand very quickly, and who knows where that can lead?
Particularly when dealing with the likes of Putin who really does appear to be off his rocker.
Perhaps he is on drugs or booze or whatever which is affecting him.
But one way and another Captain.
Make no mistake.
Putin is a nutter.
And one just cannot foresee anything a nutter may or may not do.

PS.
WORD WAR three Zen.
Gave me a chuckle that did!

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Putin will not do it .

He knows he risks nuclear conflict should he directly clash with the USA . That will destroy the empire he is trying to build .

I have listed all the proxy wars since 1945 in an earlier post. Not one has had the USA and USSR/Russia in direct conflict . Both have too much to lose and very little to gain . This will not change in the forseable future .

The Ukraine crisis will not bring about this change as it not much different from the Georgia War of recent times . Just on a bigger scale and much more Media coverage . Probably the same end with a puppet Government installed .

The only difference I see is that it gave Nato a wake up call and we will enter into a new arms race but unlike the Cold War this will be predominantly conventional weapons as most of the member countries with the exception of Poland have cut back defense spending to a minimum . On this point the UK has already stated it will review things in the near future . Russia has been doing this already since Putin came to power.
He is the old Stalinist type President and has largely modernised the Russian armed forces and has narrowed the gap as regards quality over quantity ( which was the old regime) . The best example is in Russia's Navy with state of the art ships in the Black Sea area of this before mentioned conflict . A far cry from the rusting hulks of some 20 years ago .



One of the new 22350m frigates

 

The argument that World War III is not a threat reminds me of all the people in the early days of 2020 who kept insisting "it's just another flu".

 

It has always been a threat since 1945 and that's why we had the Cold War . Thankfully it never turned hot and I cant see any reason for that to change .

 

You say Putin is a nutter . In the West's eye he is and I agree . To those immediately around him he isn't . He is an empire builder and wants to restore Russia to its former greatness and to get more respect in the world order . There are always 2 sides to the coin .