Why are liberals more close minded than conservatives? I mean.. If I disagree with the "we are all corporate slaves theory", why do they always shout at me that I'm a slave and don't know anything?
JohnWalker, as in the "American Taliban"? You should be more careful when choosing online screennames. This thread itself, in fact, is a waste of time.
Why is the thread a waste of time? And John Walker, as in Johnnie Walker, is a drink, learn your culture. Youths barely out of high school who are convinced of a mass conspiracy against the world, while abandoning reason and debate, is a waste of time? Whats wrong in America is not corruption by those in power, whats wrong with America is that there is no oversight of those in power. Don't take a shiet on the guy who gets away with murder, take a dump on the guy who let it happen.
uhh, i don't know? because you are? why do you like using labels so much? seriously, just think for yourself and operate through critical thinking, instead of just using the thinking tools that the government says you can. and you just said close minded, and then provided an example of one of the most open minded observations.. wtf? you make no sense. and nobodys an actual theorist unless they propose the theory from scratch..there's only a few actual theorists.. anybody who follows them would be something else. another example of you taking what the government gives you instead of making personal conclusions.
I'll try to keep my response short and hold my focus to one issue. Try to read everything so it allows you to give a proper response. My understanding could be wrong but when you said "one of the most open-minded observations", I take it you mean someone saying "we are all corporate slaves". ***Note, I am assuming that the speaker is keeping in mind that each word affects the meaning of the entire statement. When someone says, “there is no God”. This is a close minded statement because it leaves no room for argument. The speaker is basically giving you the choice to prove he is wrong or agree he is right. His use of words suggests he knows this for a fact! When someone says, “I do not believe in God”, this is an open minded statement because the reader acknowledged it is his belief and not his knowledge. Therefore he leaves room for someone to share their beliefs/opinions and try to argue the two. “we are all corporate slaves”, is therefore closeminded because it states this as a fact rather than an opinion that could be argued. Now! If the speaker says “my opinion is that we are all corporate slaves” then that changes everything because he now leaves room for someone to disagree and perhaps change his opinion. Okay. re-reading your post, I just can’t help but pointing out some fallacy. “why do you like using labels so much?” I never labeled anyone! I used liberal/conservatives as a subject not an adjective. Unless you read my post too quickly and didn’t pick up on that, I’m not sure why you would flame me as a “labeler”.
"Why are liberals more close minded than conservatives?" This sentence automatically assumes that liberals are more closed minded than conservatives; It leaves no room for the possibility that conservatives can be more closed minded. According to your logic, your sentence would be closed minded. Anyways, who has the time to be perfectly politically correct all the time.
That was a question, not a statement. I am asking for an answer, not giving one!!! =P Yeah but its got nothing to do with political correctness, I was being technical just to show that point. Can somebody just answer, or comment on my beef? Why do people believe amateur conspiracy theories, when they have provided, no proof, and no evidence? BUT, thats not even the issue, if you believe them for any reason or no reason at all, thats fine. But how come some of these people try to fight you, or make you look like an asshole, when you poke holes in their theory or ask legitimate questions instead of admitting they don't know? (just like the gov't does by the way when its trying to hide something. Political rhetoric I thinks the word.
A democracy represents the will of the people. So yes, when a democracy goes bad, you are absolutely correct to lay the blame at the feet of the citizens themselves. I've done it for years, but to no avail. Conspiracy is sometimes based on gut feeling as much as it is any kind of evidence. I KNOW my government is full of dryrot. I can't prove it, because these people are expert at covering their tracks, but I KNOW it. Just a matter of time before conspiracy matures into fact. x
There is a lot of credibility to conspiracy theories, yet so many ignore it, which can be very annoying. People can't just say, 'maybe' to these theories. Instead, they just completely trash it as if it is self evident that these theories are wrong. This complete refusal to think critically on this is probably one of the biggest reasons why some are so militant in backing up these theories. It is very important to think critically on both sides. And often times, both sides fail. The worst thing about those that ignore these theories, are their explanations on how certain things are impossible. Whenever I talk to someone about how America is slowly turning fascist, they laugh at me and give me US government 101 lessons; It is very condescending, because they believe that I don't understand how the American government works. Their explanation on how America can't turn fascist is, "Well, America is a republic, and it has checks and balances", and I really don't see their point with this statement. Their statement assumes that the American government isn't collapsible. When you say that America isn't collapsible, you're saying that America is perfect, and I don't see how anyone can look me straight in the eye and say that with solid surety. All governments are collapsible. All you have to do to realize this is by having a logical mind, and some common sense. Once you open your mind up to the fact that all governments are susceptible to collapse, and look to the theories and see the way this country is going, you can see a trend that is leading America to fascism. Want evidence? All you have to do is to keep an open mind and realize that much of this evidence is progressive. In that, you can only see more evidence as time goes by. All of the evidence isn't revealed all on one go, and it's a mental ability to see past the lack of hard evidence - All you really need is solid theories, and we already have that. Again, a lot of the reason why people go ape-shit insane when you try to tell them they're wrong, stems from others lack of ability to say 'maybe' to these theories, and assume the opposite of these theories as self-evident.
yup i can see why you would think these statements are close minded, its an opinion to you but its fact to me and anyone who's seen what i have and done the same research perspective can be a bitch
Xenon The latter part of your post tickled my thought process. My favorite part was, "because these people are expert at covering their tracks". You'll love this excerpt from Plato's republic (keep in mind this is centuries old!!) **note, by vice he means 'unjust acts'. [font="]“But surely”, someone will object, “it isn’t easy for vice to remain always hidden.” We’ll reply that nothing great is easy. ... ... To remain undiscovered we’ll form secret societies and political clubs. And there are teachers of persuasion to make us clever in dealing with assemblies and law courts. Therefore, using persuasion in one place and force in another, we’ll outdo others without paying a penalty [/font] %*$&ing great stuff in my opinion. So relating to your post, no doubt about it that to uncover the lies, deceit, and wrongs of those in power we start with gut feelings. (me for example) (1) I would mull those feelings with my rational mind and use my logic to analyze my gut feeling. (2) From there I develop an idea/opinion of the truth. (3) Study from the available materials and then rethink my ideas. Evidence I gain from my research then proves my points, disproves some points, or leaves some inconclusive. (4) Now I have arguments (ammunition in debate!) for my opinion. [font="] "[/font] Just a matter of time before conspiracy matures into fact." Do you mean a conspiracy is eventually revealed to those outside of the conspirers? or did you mean that conspiracy theories turn into facts? If it is the second one, then I would suggest to you that only by proof could you call it a fact. You can present a powerful argument that JFK was a victim of some conspiracy, but you can't call it a fact unless someone in the know testifies, you find documentation admitting it, or find some physical proof. See what I mean? Even without proving something, it can still be reasonable belive in something, but you would be wrong to call it a fact no matter how much you believe in it until you find actual proof.
Def, I appreciate your post, great stuff. Like xenon, I can see your not one of those nuts. like xenon said, powerful people are expert at coverups. Therefore we have few resources to expose any lies or wrongs. Thats why conspiracy theories(even amateur ones) were so appealing to me (and still are). Their intent is very valid and supported by sociological studies: what we are told is often not what the truth really is. anyways... "America is slowly turning fascist" Again, I'm only 20 and don't know well enough about government, politics, economics to truly be able to argue with conviction. But I will lay out my opinions for you to react and respond to. My first point would certainly be a government 101 lesson. =) FACT! : America is certainly a nation of laws and a system of checks and balances and separation of power. There is overwhelming evidence and arguments to support the notion that GENERALLY citizens are protected under law and free from direct manipulation by government. MY OPINION : Whoever told you that all is huncky dory and perfect is probably worse for America than any conspiracy nut. Today there is hardly any separation of power because everyone in government comes from the same circles and has an agenda that is not privy to the common man. Worse, citizens are not encouraged to be part of the political process, not today, not since the foundation of this nation. (strong arguments upon request) This leaves us with blind faith in our rulers. My argument stops there, lol, because I didn't quite understand what you meant by fascism. Care to give an example? Fascism in Nazi Germany? Dictatorship in Iraq with Saddam? Communism in Soviet Union? Socialism in Contemporary China?
Check out the you tube video of "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf. I think you'll enjoy it, and may find it a little depressing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc =)
i'm glad you approach this with an open, yet discerning mind walker. i have no doubt that you'll eventually change your mind with that attitude.
she talks really well. I'll try to get through as much as possible and drop down my response here... I got to the first 10 minutes, and it made me laugh cuz I remembered what you said in an earlier post. First thing she said after her introduction was a civics (gov 101) lesson. = P Heres my guess, shes gonna break down how checks and balances, sep. of power, all that good shit that makes us democratic is slowly being manipulated and changed, systematically. Juicy stuff, shes good looking too! lol sry that was inappropriate
"shes good looking too!" True... I'd hit it. Nice to know you're being open minded about this. Thanks, dood. =)
Its almost frightening to think the U.S. is today exhibiting those same signs that other democracies went through in a transformation to fascism. People don't realize that the Nazi's went through a difficult process using political trickery and connivery to change Germany into a fascism. People also don't realize that anti-semitism was used as a tool rather than a reason. That the Reichstag fire was an example of long established methods of gov't fooling its own people. Imagine 9/11 was an inside job, wouldn't the motive make so much sense? Just like Reichstag it made us believe in a threat that wasn't real, and let us blindly follow whatever the gov't ordered. Naomi Wolf said it herself, we can accept illegal imprisonment of marginal people (like foreigners today in America). But what she didn't point out, is that soon it spreads to supporters of these marginal people. (like communist supporters but not activists, like those who helped Jews but were not Jewish) Today, remember the ferocious outrage, especially in the South, for people who criticized the federal gov't or bush admin. These people were accused of being unpatriotic? Scary stuff because anyone with half a brain knows that America was founded on criticizing the government. While she is brilliant in delivering a powerful and relevant message, I wanted to see her address the simple question of, Why? We now know that Bush was lying. We now know this war was not about freedom or liberty. We now know that "War on Terror" was a bullshit gimmick and propaganda even. But why are educated people still not threatening revolt or showing outrage at these deceptions? Maybe because even with the deception, and belittling of the people by the gov't, they are doing all of it for a good reason. Is that not so far-fetched? Like a father who steals a loaf of bread and lies to his children where he got it. So here's my proposition to you: We were lied to. We were told to shut up and follow. We may have even been attacked by our own gov't for our consent. After all that... 25 years into the future. America is wealthier from the oil we control. America destroys a threat of a Nazi-like rise to power by despots on the Middle East. America has more influence over China and Europe with its control of the Middle East. Americans individually have more employment, more money, and are safer. Would it be worth it if that was the future? And would you look at our leaders today differently if that was their intent?
