circumcision

I should have seen this coming...

well, cody wants to do it. I don't. We have a problem.
Thankfully, the shared care maternity where the midwives work are completely opposed to it, too. Infact, they refuse to even have it done at this hosiptal, thankgod.
But yeah, right after we went to the ultrasound the other day, I had to go use the washroom and then I got into the car with cody and his mom. The minute I got in there, his mom says to me, "I HOPE YOU'D BETTER BE GETTING HIM CIRCUMCISED." First of all, that is NOT her place to say. Then, Cody pipes in, saying, "I want to do it, too. How does it feel to be the odd one out?" I just shouted, "WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!"
Finally by the end of the night when his mom had gone to bed (she was staying the night), I broke down bawling trying to stress to him just how unnecessary it was! I was also trying to tell him about how the pain of it could totally mess up breastfeeding. (I'm not going to go into the hellish story of what happened with Leane, but I have been eliminating ANYTHING I can think of to get this one off to the right start)....guess what he and his mom say, "IT DOESN'T HURT THEM. AND IF IT DOES, IT'S ONLY FOR A DAY. AND YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T LET YOU IN THE ROOM, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH."
I was like, "how can you not see what's wrong with EVERYTHING you just said!?"
I'm also going to be having this baby while I'm still in school. I'm going to the hospital, having him, coming home, and doing all my classes from home right where I left off. If anything, I thought that maybe they would sympathize with the fact that I'm going to have just given birth, have a toddler and will be attending school full time while trying to breastfeed. Nope. His mom said, "you're not going to be that busy, that's no excuse."

So, basically, I am asking for some good proof of why this isn't necessary, if anyone knows of anything good. I found some stuff on the net, but Cody and his mom both said that I can find anything I want on the internet.
I've told them that it's not any "cleaner," "healthier," or, "better looking."
They don't believe me.
The fact that Alberta Health Care won't even cover it anymore should have been a hint...I actually asked about that when I was pregnant with Leane, and my OB said that it's now deemed a cosmetic surgery. So guess what Cody's mom says back, "well, I've already been looking into that for you, and I found a doctor who'll do it for only $100." SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!! LIKE I WANT A DISCOUNT SURGON OPPERATING ON MY NEWBORN!!!! And the fact that she's already researching it just pissed me off more!
Cody heard that first hand, but his mom didn't and is still gung-ho about it, and has been lecturing him every time she calls to make me do it.
I have told her that this is none of her buisness......now I just need some proof to back me up and tell her to shove it up her ass.

 

I think it looks better. But, that's not a reason to go have your baby's weiner snipped. Lol.
You're the one that's going to be doing the most caring for (I'm guessing) of this new baby. If you're going to have to do it while schooling, and taking care of Leane, AND breastfeeding, it should be mainly your decision. Not totally, but you should have a say and not feel ganged up on.
http://www.circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html

 

That mom is a superbitch. I'd have capped her already....

Now for some real help. This seems to be a standstill. The difference and argument stems from a difference of opinion, nothing more. I doubt you can convince this dude otherwise with some facts, but I dunno. To me its not really a big deal either way, but w/e it is your kid, not mine.

Good luck in whatever happens.

 

go to www.mothering.com/discussions and look at the circumcision forum. There are many links for you to look at. You are the mama. Protect your son's penis from mutilation.

 

Tell your husband (who, I thought was normally level-headed) that if he can sit through an ENTIRE circumcision procedure and LISTEN to the baby scream red-faced and pitiful, if he can watch without turning away, listening without plugging his ears, do his OWN research and convince YOU that it's necessary and that he'll comfort the baby during and after the procedure, then you'll think about it.

There are so many videos, full length, of boys going through it. You can even find them on google.

*hug* Don't back down. Don't give in.

 

Well, from my POV. You are the mom. You are doing ALL the work in gestating this kid, YOU are going to have to go through the pain and trauma of giving birth, while your SO just sits back and props his feet up while you do all the work. IMO YOUR oppinion holds more weight. In my mind don't means doubt. If one parent thinks that something isin't a good idea or doesn't approve of something it isin't the other parents right to push. IMO I look at this the same way I look at Abortion. This kid is in your uterous - therefore you have a greater responsibility - with greater responsibility comes greater rights. The person whose body is NOT being used to gestate this kid and whose body will NEVER endure the trauma of birth - shouldn't have "more" say over the person whose body IS being used to bring the child into the world.

 

How about asking the person whose body is being mutilated. When he is old enough to voice an opinion let him get it whacked off. I'm sure he's not going to be too happy about doing it then so why would you doit now.

Kathi

 

You're giving birth, YOU ARE THE MOTHER. Put your foot down. That is that IMO.

 

come & have the babe over here in the uk, we dont circ. no seriously, you are the mom, its up to you to make the best decisions for that babe, you need to sit down & discuss it with your OH & make sure you both put the argument across but when it comes down to it YOU ARE THE MOM & if its not what you want then you dont have to do it.

i think what hippyfreak said was great & you should say that to him.

why do americans circ boys? i have never understood this. its not done here in the UK, it used to be done very occasionally for one reason or another. like my partner is circumcised because his forskin was completly closed & he couldnt wee. but even now 30 years on they dont circ for this as they have found ways to rectify the problems with out circumsision. its very hard to find a circumsiced boy under 20y/o unless they are jewish. you should put this point across to your OH too.

 

Exactly. Under no circumstances should you give in, imo, and have your baby unnecessarily mutilated

Good luck

 

does she have email? I say email her disgusting pictures of messed up, wrong circumsions everyday until she leave u the f alone(oh and the stories of the pain that goes along with it). lol. Sorry, nothing i can't stand more than someone trying to FORCE you into things. And if it doesn't work... find a board certified plastic surgeon (one who will charge you out of the wazoo too) and say heres who I want, so you pay for it. Start finding all these outrageous things to go along with it and demand at her like she is to you. May not work though, she sounds like the type of psycho to actually go for it all. Good luck and I hope everything works out well.... just to let you know... I was forced into circumsion with my first and have regretted so much. Do not let someone bully you!

 

I support YOU KIRSTYN!!!

Did you know -
that most men in the world and the great majority of men in Europe, Scandinavia, Central and South America or Asia are not circumcised?
that "medical" infant circumcision was introduced to prevent masturbation?
that until a few decades ago, female genital cutting was promoted in the western world for many of the same reasons as male circumcision?
that infant circumcision was fashionable in the English-speaking world 50 years ago but is now rare (except in the US)?
that babies are strapped down to be circumcised?
that circumcision with a PlastiBellTM does involve cutting?
that before the foreskin can be cut (or crushed) off, it must be torn away from the glans?
that circumcision removes 50% of the skin of the penis?
that no medical association anywhere in the world supports neonatal circumcision (male or female) on medical grounds?

here's are some links:
http://www.circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html


I really think this one applies:

http://www.circumstitions.com/men-vuln.html

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/faq.html

http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=43

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp

this one helped me when I found out my Son had a "pinhole phimosis":

http://www.male-initiation.net/welcome.html

as for the mother in law... get a restraining order if you have to. Sometimes it has to come to that to give the right message. She's already disrespecting your boundaries about your own child.

HUGGY you, don't feel alone... I'm here right with you!

 

thanks so much for all the info succulent flower, and everyone else too!
I am printing a bunch of that stuff off!
Most of the things you wrote there I have already said. I actually asked him if he would have approved cutting off Leane's clitoris and sewing her labia shut. He went quiet. I told him we'd be doing the SAME thing to our son!!!!! How can he see one as humane and the other as inhumane??? It's the same damn thing!

But thanks for all the support everyone.
As for me "being the mother," that has no pull. The fact is that we're both his parents...me saying that is only going to cause a MASSIVE fight, so that is not a valid argument. I want medical facts to back me up. So far, I'm winning if you ask me. His only argument is that he wants his son to look like him, and because every man in his family has had it done. Still, pretty damn weak argument if you ask me. Everything else he has tried to say about cleaner, healthier, etc, is bullshit and has been disprooven. This just pisses me off.

Earthymama~ THAT EMAIL THING IS AN AWESOME IDEA!
She refused to be in the room with her kids when they did it, and was stressing about how we aren't allowed in the room when they are doing the cutting. WTF? Even if it HAD to be done for some reason, I would NEVER leave him alone!

I just don't get this...at all...
we went for our midwife appointment yesterday and cody brought it up. I made sure that I stressed that I was totally opposed to it. She agrees. I can't remember if I wrote this in the above post or not, but she made sure to tell us yesterday that the hospital that we're having the baby at refuse to do it because it's medically unnecessary and barbaric. She also made sure that cody knew that the rate of circumsisions was going way down and that our son would actually be the one "out of place in the locker room." That wasn't such a big deal to me, but it sure was to him.

Bah, this is going to be a long pregnancy. The minute he seems to be coming around to my point of view again, he talks to that fucking mother of his!

 

As a co-parent, I am OFFENDED. My husband has just as many parental rights as me, and that's the way it should be. His opinion doesn't get discredited because I have an extra X chromosome. Saying a man shouldn't have as much right in his child's life because he didn't carry it to term is severely devastating the rights a child has to be parented EQUALLY. It's that type of opinion that pushes men away from their parental responsibility in the first place.

AND my husband did JUST as much work during my labor as I did (well, maybe not as much). He lost as much sleep as I did, he helped me push, he went through all of the emotions and actions and conversations. He went through labor right along with me.

Kirsten, this baby shouldn't be circumsized because both parents don't agree. Decisions for this child shouldn't be made until you are both on the same page. As well you know. *hugs* keep trucking, mama.

 

I don't buy this "I want him to look like daddy" thing...No little boy's genitals are going to look like his father's anyway - it will be well past puberty that before that. Once your son has reached that age I think he will understand the differences between his father's penis and his without being traumatized by it.

My mother was pushing circ for my son also, but I wouldn't even discuss it with her. She finally got it that the matter wasn't up for conversation and moved on. Next time and every time your MIL brings it up just simply tell her that you are not going to discuss it with her. No need to argue or try to convince her.

 

Ugh, I really got disgusted reading your first post Kirstyn--disgusted that your mother in law would so adamantly be pressing HER will onto you and YOUR family. I wish you the best of luck and strength.

 

How often do guys (boys and fathers-males in general) go around comparing their penises anyways???

 

sugrmag~really good point. I just don't get it. I told Cody that circumcising our son would be like goving Leane boob impants when she was born to make sure that we both have big boobs when she gets older.

 

why dont you tell the mother in law that you will circ your baby boy if she has female circ done at the same time. that might bloody shut her up

 

I am SO relieved that you aren't trying to "pull rank" on your husband in this

Now as for MIL... ugh! It sounds to me like poor DH is getting some pressure from "dear old mom" and is struggling a bit. Can the two of you have a teeny tiny heart to heart? Point out (NICELY!) that it's YOU TWO and not her that are the parents... that you both need to be in agreement - but that Mom doesn't have to agree with you.

Another thing my DH & I learned the hard way - DON'T tell the in-laws (on either side!) everything... and work together in refusing to discuss things that aren't their business in front of them Our favorite phrase is "Thanks for the opinion, Mom. We'll discuss that together - later." This still goes over our moms' heads some days, but we keep repeating the exact same phrase until they get the point or give up.
love,
mom