So like, I read this local article about how the separation of church and state is all fake, and how George claims this to be a "Christian Nation". It really got me thinking. Thinking about how fucked up it all is. This country has never separated church and state. And politics and religion do NOT go hand in hand at all. It just fucks everything up. Im not religious, by the way. Its too confusing and just way too contradicting and hypocritical. He says this is a "Christian Nation". I just really had a laugh at that. If its such a "Chrisitan Nation", then George Bush is the devil and all US citizens are sinners. You know those, PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, bumper stickers? Isnt Pride one of the seven deadly sins? What about, FORTUNATE TO BE AN AMERICAN, or, EMBARRASSED TO BE AN AMERICAN? How about those for bumper stickers? How about a FREE NATION, what about that George? And you know, in the article it said there was a very good chance Bush would be "reelected". And I just gotta say, fuck. Were all doomed. And you know, Kerry isnt that great either. So either way were at a lose lose situation. Where have all the honest humans gone? Just some thoughts, Jessica
God will you find something new to bitch about? There are 10 wars going on on earth everyday and yet you feel the need to bitch about this? How is religion and patriotism affecting you in anyway?
I saw on the daily show that people who regularly attend church are more likely to vote republican. The other day my grandfather told me about this article where it said that georgie has given over 1.1 billion in PUBLIC fucking money to churches. Then I heard about how some Bishops are saying that prochoice politicians shouldn't be voted for because it's in conflict with church policies. He didn't say anything about the church's stance against pro-death penalty or pro-iraqi-liberation-occupation-freedom-whatever-the-fuck-crazy-ass-name-they-come-up-with-for-the-fucking-war-wow-that-is-a-lot-of-hyphens. So yeah, it does affect us. And it shouldn't be proud to be an american or embarassed, prolly just: damned happy to be an american will do. (and i am).
Oh, and a bill was just introduced into the House which would allow churches to openly endorse politicains without losing their tax exempt status. I heard it on NPR, and I know alot of people will want an actual news snippet, so I'll try to find one.
Here's somthin: [size=+1]GOP Aims To Broaden Churches' Politicking (The Washington Post) [/size]02/17/02 Article/Interview/Speech [size=-1]EMAIL THIS ISSUE TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS[/size] GOP AIMS TO BROADEN CHURCHES' POLITICKING Bill Would Allow Backing Of Candidates By Alan Cooperman, The Washington Post Sunday, February 17, 2002 Although the House passed a campaign finance bill last week aimed at plugging a major source of special-interest money, it is considering another measure that could open a new pipeline from an unlikely source: churches. Analysts say the bill, sponsored by Rep. Walter B. Jones Jr. (R-N.C.), would allow churches to endorse candidates and spend money to help elect them. Under current law, churches may address political issues and invite politicians to speak, but they risk their tax-exempt status if they specifically call for a candidate's election or defeat. The Houses of Worship Political Speech Protection Act has 112 co-sponsors, nearly all of them Republicans. They include Majority Leader Richard K. Armey and Majority Whip Tom DeLay, both of Texas. The bill would exempt churches from a 1954 provision -- inserted into the tax code at the urging of then-Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson -- that prohibits nonprofit groups from directly supporting or opposing candidates. Jones said his bill is not intended to affect campaign finance. "It is strictly a speech issue," he said. "This does not do anything but allow churches to say 'George Bush' -- by name -- 'is pro-life, Al Gore is pro-choice.' " But the lawyer who drafted the bill, Colby M. May, said it would allow a church to spend money on political campaigns as long as the spending did not amount to a "substantial part" of the church's activities. The IRS and courts have interpreted similar language in a related portion of the tax code to allow nonprofit groups to spend anywhere from 5 percent to 20 percent of their revenue for lobbying. "We took that language because there's already a history of the courts interpreting that language on lobbying," May said. "You take it from lobbying and apply it to political campaigns." Should the bill become law, May said, churches "could endorse candidate X, and 'endorse' means they could engage in distributing voter information about candidate X, they could distribute bumper stickers that are all about candidate X, and so on." May directs the Washington office of the American Center for Law and Justice, a nonprofit law firm active in conservative political causes. Its board members include television evangelist Pat Robertson, who has strongly supported Jones's bill. So have several other religious leaders, including James C. Dobson of Focus on the Family, D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries, Richard D. Land of the Southern Baptist Convention and Rabbi Daniel Lapin of Toward Tradition. Every election season, the Washington-based group Americans United for Separation of Church and State sends letters reminding churches, synagogues and mosques that they are not allowed to make political endorsements, and warning that violators risk losing their tax-exempt status. Current law allows religious leaders to speak from their pulpits about political issues, such as abortion, and some do so quite forcefully. But Jones said many ministers feel a "chilling effect," particularly because of what he considers to be the IRS's selective enforcement against the Christian right. "I believe that the churches, synagogues and mosques in this country are protected by the Constitution so they may have political speech," he said. "They had political speech, there was never a problem, until Johnson put this amendment into the law." His bill is pending in the House Ways and Means Committee. Jones said the panel may hold a hearing in April, perhaps in conjunction with a similar bill offered by Rep. Philip M. Crane (R-Ill.). Crane's bill, also supported by the House GOP leadership but with only 14 co-sponsors, would replace the substantiality test with a "bright line." It would allow churches to spend up to 5 percent of their gross revenue on political campaigns and up to 20 percent on lobbying, with the total not to exceed 20 percent. Campaign finance experts from both parties predict that if either bill gets through the House, it will face stiff opposition in the Senate. Activists disagree, meanwhile, on what the legislation's real impact might be. Barry Lynn, head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said it would "open a gigantic new loophole for funding candidates without public scrutiny." But James Bopp Jr., general counsel to the James Madison Center for Free Speech, called such fears "fantasyland." "People don't join churches to give money to candidates, so the parishioners wouldn't stand for it," Bopp said. "Name one minister, one priest, one rabbi who will say, 'Yes, if the IRS lets us give our money to a candidate, that's what I'll do.' " -30- Sorry I got's the pic of Jesse Jackson Jr. Don't know how to edit it out
This is a christian nation. Why do you think it says in god we trust on our money or 'One nation undergod' in our pledge...and unsexy dreads you take to much literally.
Actually dude, the US has no official religion and the government is secular (or should be). Heh, who's taking things too literally?
This nation was founded on Christian beliefs. The morals, values, and objectives of our nation run directly parallel with the christian religion. So that would make it accurate to call our nation a christian nation. Politics and religions do not go hand in hand only when the politics force the religion on the people. Fortunatly one of the christian beliefs our founding fathers based this country on is freewill. Do no think for a second that our nation is trying to force christianity on you. Yes prid is one of the seven deadly sins. But tell me, do you think it is a sin to be proud of who you are and what you do? I can assure you it is not. When pride is labeled a sin, it is reffering to boastfulness and cockieness.
Heres a few quotes from our Founding Fathers. "The Establishment and Free Excercise Clause of the First Amendament is intended to erect a wall of separation between Church and State." Thomas Jefferson " The United States is by no means a Christian Nation" George Washington. The majority of the Founding Fathers were not Christian but were Deists that believed in God but not necessarily in the divinity of Christ.They understoood that God's kingdom is based on choice-freedom of conscience. They knew that the best way to protect the freedom of conscience was to keep church and state separate. "My kingdom is not of this world" Render unto Cesaer the things that are Cesaer's and to God the things that are Gods" "When you pray don't stand on the street corner and give long loud public prayers.....Instead go into you homes and pray privately.The God in heaven that you pray to privately will reward you publically." Jesus Christ. That seems pretty plain that Jesus was in favor of the separation of Church and State. Let me tell ya something. Not all Christians are Repugnicans. My Dad is a Seventh Day Adventist minister and he is a dyed-in-the wool Democrat as is the rest of the family who are also Seventh Day Adventist christians. If these churces want to change America they should follow Jesus's example and concentrate on winning peoples hearts to Christ instead of trying to use the coercive power of the state.
I heard someone say and I think it's true: "We have freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion." It seems like we don't have a separation of church and state, and I don't like that. It seems like religion is playing a bigger role in the government.
If America is such a "Christian Nation" then why was the president recently PUBLICALLY BERATED BY THE POPE? Similar complaints have rolled in from many other prominent religious leaders and christian sects as well as other religions. A word of advice to those who'd use God's name as justification for war and conquest - make sure the church is on side beforehand...
Well, that would only really matter to a certain percentage of Christians, most Christians in America aren't Catholic, including G-Dub. And at any rate, I don't see how the president's standing with religious leaders is an accurate barometer of how "Christian" our nation is. Better yet, don't use God's name or any other religious entity's name as justification for war and conquest, period.
Jessica~ My thoughts right now are that if they could, our Founding Father's would be rolling over in their graves! The situation right now in our country seems a little bleak when we consider all of this... ...but I wouldn't dispair. The amount of communication that has been taking place due to the internet will bring the balance we need. Folks are talking and sharing ideas at a rate never before seen. Freedom will ultimately prevail because the sense of freedom is so strongly innate in the human mind. Patience I say. In the meantime a peace pipe will help. Paz, Josie
The "One Nation Under God" in the pledge was added in...what? The 1950's? I fail to see how The Pledge of Allegiance equals the U.S. being a Christian nation.
Who the hell cares about the pope he cant even keep his own spit in his mouth. Besides catholics are just ONE of THOUSANDS of christian religions.
I agree they would be rolling around in their graves because of how fast our country united and how fast the liberals completely destroyed any unity in our country and how they are slowy destroying the country.
If anything, the U.S. would be a Christian nation because most of it's citizens are Christian. Not that it is (or should be), but I'm suprised nobody brought that up yet.
The seperation from church and state is so that the government can't have it's own religion or fund an existing one. This is an old topic.
I am going to start a website called "churchwatch" so anyone who feels that a specific church is violating their tax-exempt status, it can be posted publicly on the internet, and then subsequently investigated by the IRS and all governmental authorities who need to know that a specific church can now be taxed. If you want to play with fire, Mr. and Mrs. Churchgoer, then you will get burned and your little clubs will become a taxpaying entity. Go ahead. Keep pushing on the political door, and it will open far enough so you will fall through.
