Christmas. A Christian holiday?

We celebrate it because it is the day of Jesus Christ birth. Right? Christ-mas. It is even in the name. Was he even born on this day? I have read many accounts of his birth date to be something in October. If that is the case, shouldn't we celebrate Christ-mas in October? Did Jesus even celebrate his birthdate?
Satan makes an appearance in this holiday. Santa/Satan

 

The recycling of Limbo could never make it to the seventh heaven to ME even if the present pope says it.

 

God of the Western Desert Mass Day
Let's all sacrifice a living tree to this god!

WTF?​

 

Wiki thinks:

Christmas (IPA: /krɪsməs/), also referred to as Christmas Day or Christmastide, is an annual holiday celebrated on December 25 that marks and honors the birth of Jesus of Nazareth.His birth, which is the basis for the Anno Domini system of dating, has been determined by modern historians as having occurred between 7 and 2 BC. The date of celebration is not thought to be Jesus' actual date of birth, and may have been chosen to coincide with ancient Roman solar festivals that were held on December 25.

Santa Claus (also referred to as Father Christmas, although the two figures have different origins) is a popular mythological figure often associated with bringing gifts at Christmas. Santa is generally believed to be the result of a syncretization between St. Nicholas of Myra and elements from pagan Nordic and Christian mythology, and his modern appearance is believed to have originated in 19th century media.


Satan/Santa....funny.

 

I've also heard that it is around April. Who cares when he was born though. The point of Christmas is to celebrate the incarnation coming into this world.

Like other feast days, some of them have nothing to do with the saint at all. for example, why did the Byzantine church pick, what is by most of the world's standards, Sept 11 for the Feast of the Beheading of St john the Baptist (an obviously solemn feast)

 

I'd agree with you on that.

It seems though that the fixing of Christmas at the end of december, close to the winter solstice may hark back to earlier pre-Christian celebrations at that time. It was seen as the re-birth of the sun after it reaches its lowest point in the sky. That certainly resonates with the birth of Christ, the mystical Sun or Son.( the monstrace used in RC mass is definitely a solar symbol) This would be in line with the fact that during the Christianization of Europe, many pagan elements were assimilated into Christianity - for instance, in England, churches were often built either on or close to old sacred sites.
Easter too probably originated in spring time fertility rites; peoppe were used to having celebrations at certain times, and the new church accomodated this as something quite natural.

As for santa - it's derived fron the word santos meaning saint. The s and n don't indicate satan - although the way Christmas has turned into an orgy of consumerism might well do so.

 

I think it should matter, but at this point it does not, obviously.
It should not be a particular time because it overlaps something else.
There are not many realities about Jesus that survive, but his birthday should be one.

December the 25 is too political for me...it seemingly has nothing to do with his birth and more about control and ownership of a particular time.

It brushes aside other celebrations and assumes it has authority...which pardon my french, pisses me off.

 

Are you an anti-French racist?

 

No. That's what us Brits say, perhaps you guys too...well, obviously not.

 

Have you only added about erm very little to what I posted?

 

But its derived from a form of racism - the old emnity between we Brits and those dammned frogs....100 years war, waterloo....maybe time to move on.

 

I don't have any personal enmity towards the French or the French language.
But, we must watch what we say...those damned Frogs are soooo touchy.

 

Only joking there - actually, I'm a quater french myself - my grandad was an irishman who married a frenchwoman.
So in a way I'm partly a product of the 'entente cordial' which as we all know now exists between the two ancient enemies

 

I agree that in the wider roman empire it was to harken to an earlier belief (in terms of Christmas). On another topic though, "conventional" Easter derivation I highly disagree with the whole Eostre argument that Easter is totally pagan. It is bunk plain and simple. Many of the other languages in the world derive it from the Greek from the Hebrew for Passover.

It would make sense, even if it didn't have pagan linkages, to symbolize Christ's body as a burst of light or a sun. Christ is the "light of the world". Hence the "onion domes" over the Slavic Eastern Churches.

It is a shame for the whole world what Christmas has become.

 

I guess my point is: does it matter more that you pray on a correct day, or that you pray.

I see what you mean though. Hanukkah was not originally a major Jewish festival from my understanding in comparison to Yom Kippur or Pesach or Rosh Hashanah or Sukkot. I've read that the reason it has gained more and more prominence is because of Christmas. If that is true, that is pretty, well i am not sure what it really means. Christmas is definetly not the most important of Christian celebrations.

 

lol - I hoped you were...

 

Nobody knows when Jesus was born, and you're right, December 25 was selected because it was already celebrated by a variety of religions popular in Rome, especially Mithraism and the state-sponsored cult of Sol Invinctus. Christians always knew this, but didn't have an issue with it until the Puritans came along. The Puritans were scandalized by the pagan origins of the holiday, and even more so by the pagan way in which Christians have traditionally celebrated it. So they banned it. It wasn't until the Puritans were kicked out of power that the holiday returned, in the pagan form we know and love today.

 

i heard jesus's birthday was in july, hence the whole 'christmas in july' thing?

idk

 

You're dead right on the history here, except in one minor detail, which is that a lot of the present 'traditions' only came in later on, mainly in the 19th century. In england for example, right up into C.18 the traditional Christmas dinner consisted of roast Boar's Head. Turkeys were only introduced later on. My old grandmother used to tell me that when she was a child, people had goose.
Christmas trees too were brought to england by Prince Albert when he married Queen Victoria - they were a German tradition, and I assume they might represent another pagan survival.
Sadly today some of the things are being lost, such as carol singing from house to house, whcich still used to happen back in the 60's but has now virtually disappeared.

 

Christians should not celebrate Christmas at all.

It is, for all intents and purposes, a pagan holiday, as has been already mentioned.

If the birth of the Christ was to be celebrated, it would seem that the bible would say to do so and tell us when to celebrate it. It does not.

As for the exact date of Jesus birth, no knows but because Jesus died at 33½ years old in the spring of the year, which, counting back, would make his birth date near the first of October. Making saying that Jesus was born on December 25 a lie and another reason not to celebrate Christmas.

As for Jesus celebrating his birthday, there is no record of him doing so. In fact only two birthday celebrations are recorded in the Bible, both by Pagans and at both, someone was killed, hardly a ringing endorsement for birthday celebrations or for Christmas for that matter