Christian Words?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by heron, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    What do the Christ followers here think that heathen words they commonly use such as Hell, Heaven, and Lord mean?

    Just curious if you know the wisdom of such words, or just follow your priests?
     
  2. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

    No.

    There is a difference between Believers and Followers.
    Believers, are the Christians. And they do and say as what they have been taught. Is this a bad thing? Are they going to hell? No. Not really. That's just what they have chosen.

    Christian Mystics, are the followers. We try to do exactly as we're supposed to. And we don't. Because, we are humans. Humans are sinners. We are addicts, we are liars, ect. It doesn't matter if it's drugs, internet, coffee, cigerettes, we are addicts. We are not perfect. But our goal is to follow God. Not just believe. A lot of people already know what I am, but I find it important to let everyone know the difference between me and.. regular Christians. I don't want the two confused.

    But to answer your question...
    Hell: Not sure. I don't know what hell is. I don't think that it's a firey place of pitchforks and little demons. Maybe, it is a place where you are stuck between heaven and earth, and you are stuck... just stuck. You can't really get to either side. That is where we the "followers" believe that you go back to earth, and try again.

    Heaven: I believe that at some point, when we are ready, and our lives have ended, maybe we have reached our destination. You can't claim yourself as only human. You are a spiritual being.... look deep inside yourself, as a spiritual being instead of a man, what is your heaven?

    Heaven is characterized as no universe, no gravity (or at least greatly reduced), there will be no sun or moon, no sea, no death, no pain, no suffering, and we will be given a new body. In the Bible, you will find it in.. revelation I believe... about the size of heaven and the gems, and the stones... and that's why some of us, (not usually christians I dont know why) use stones here, because it says that even the stones will cry out. Which is probably why I have a Crystal skull in my living room.


    Lord: There is a difference between God and Jesus. God is an entity, and a powerful, powerful being at that, and HAS THE POWER to control everything, but won't. Why? Love.

    If God is love, then what is love? Love is patient, love is kind, blablabla... love is not controlling. Therefore humans are able to do, whatever they want. We are given free will.

    Jesus, was the son of God, sent to earth. He was a mystic, he was able to heal people WITH the power of God. Not his own. He had the ability to do the things he wanted, and he had the wisdom, and he himself was a martyr... and i dont think I spelled that right... Does that make sense?
     
  3. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Both Hell and Heaven come from Old English words, Hel and Heofon, both of which are rooted in the PIE root word *kel, which meant cover(ed}. Hel refers to the covered place of the dead, covered by the earth, the underworld. Heofon is the firament that covers the living, i.e. the sky. Lord comes from Hlaford, and means Warder of Loaves, the one who protects and provides.

    I like Deofel, now Devil, from Deo (god} and Fel (Wilds} and refers to the Wild Savage God, the All Father.
     
  4. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    In regards to the firmament, I thought it is what seperated the Earth and sky from the waters above, and was not Heaven (Heofon) itself?
     
  5. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

    I know I sound really stupid here and don't take it the wrong way but I have no clue what you guys are talking about.
     
  6. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter


    From here, on Midgard, Heofen is the cover of living, Hel is the covered below our feet, or the cover of the dead.
     
  7. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter


    Heathen words that were adopted by christians who later lost wisdom and understanding of them
     
  8. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    When i was talking about firmaments and oceans in heaven and such, I was refering to this diagram of the universe.
    [​IMG]

    I am not sure of the cosmology of the Baltic region, but this is a diagram of the universe as layed out in Genesis for the Hebrews (as well as many other religions).

    I am trying to understand this heron. Heofon is the firmament, and not the so called "Heaven of Heavens" in this diagram? Or by cover, do you mean that Heofon literally just covers what is the Earth/Midgard?
     
  9. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter


    First, when was that diagram drawn? that may play a lot into understanding. When I say Heofen, i mean the native, pre-christian, Old English usage of the word, it naturally, by way of Christians, came to mean many other things. But yes, it means that which covers the living world, the boundary between midgard, and utgard, the outer chaos and darkness.
     
  10. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    sorry for the incredibly large picture...
     
  11. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    Ok, so basically it is what separates chaotic cosmos from the ordered cosmos? I actually got the photo from this site: http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/g/gier/306/commoncosmos.htm It claims that it is a common cosmos view that was held in the ancient world. The site uses it as an argument against Biblical inerrancy held by evangelicals. Because you used the word "firmament" this is what immediatly came to mind.
     
  12. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    It isnt too far off, but the Hebrews never used "heaven" so it is still bound by word barriers...but yes, it seperates chaos/order...supported by Tiws, defended by Thunar, ordered by Woden, and guarded by Heimdall....
     
  13. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    I do agree that words can be a barrier, especially heaven, because as you pointed out the original Hebrew for "heaven" was the firmament (as was as you demonstrated in Old English too) while in the Christian context is is the realm of the joyous afterlife.

    I think though when doing comparative religious studies or dialogue, words as they are commonly used are generally effective as is the conversation in another thread on the meaning of faith vs religion, and Christian vs REAL Christian.

    You wouldn't get a Hindu talking about their religion, but in comparative religion, Hinduism is taken as a religion even though the word cannot be translated into the native tongue.
     
  14. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

    . . . this just keeps getting stupider.
     
  15. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    Don't you think words are an important issue? How can two civilizations/cultures/religions/governments talk to one another if they cannot agree on what words to use and what those words mean? Have you never heard that "words can hurt"? Take for example faith and religion. you say religion is bad and do not have a religion, I say that religion is the consequence of faith? Maybe we are both talking about the same thing, maybe not. We need to understand words before we can understand each other.
     
  16. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

    Of course I think words are important, that's why I took latin.

    Actually no it's not, I was in a catholic school and they forced us too so we could understand the meanings of everything. I can't say that religion is bad and not to have a religion. I have a religion... but I am going to say that Christianity is NOT a religion, it's a faith.

    Christian Mysticism however, is a religion, and a cult..
     
  17. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    Ok, I misunderstood about your views regarding religion and faith and their moral standing, but I asked this in another thread, but then if Christianity is a faith, not religion, what is hinduism (a faith or a religion?)
     
  18. FinnishButterfly

    FinnishButterfly JennyJelly

    Hinduism, is a faith. There aren't any leaders. It's not an organized religion, but I have a lot of respect for hinduism they are very compassionate people...

    I pretty much respect any religion that doesn't cause harm to anyone else... That's why I love Buddhist.. they respect any religion that doesn't cause any harm to anyone.

    Cool people, they're awesome. However if i walked into a Christian Baptist church for example, chances are they wouldn't appreciate my own religion..
     
  19. Hryhorii

    Hryhorii Member

    So you are saying that Christianity is not supposed to have leaders? BY this logic, you argue that the churches set up by St Paul, heck, even the disciples themselves set up Christianity as a religion as opposed to faith because they had leaders...
     
  20. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Then what is a religion? The Hindu are my close cousins in our way, there are many many parellels that the Elders took to India, and my ancestors home. Study Proto-Indo-European religion if you really want to find out the mother source of so many of the heathen ways in the Old World.
     

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