Can you "lose" your salvation?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Sera Michele, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    I know that this subject is debatable in christian circles, and was wondering the opinions of members here on this issue. The church and school I attended believed that once salvation is attained it cannot be lost, but I have heard some interesting debates on the subject and would like to gather opinions.

    I've included some verses that have been used to support the debate. I would be interested to know the perspectives of christians and other's on the board.

    -Salvation cannot be lost:

    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    -John 10:28 (KJV)

    -Salvation can be lost:

    Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. -Revelation 2:10 (KJV)

    Of course, to me, this verse from revelations sounds out of context as far as supporting that salvation can be lost. To me it seems to be saying simply that some may suffer for their faith (for ten days apparently), but to keep your chin up because you will be rewarded for it with life after death; it doesn't really seem to speak towards loss of salvation. Unfortunatly I couldn't find any better example from googling the issue (i found other verses, but less supportive even), i'd appreciate better supporting verses if anyone knows them or even feels that there are any.
  2. Charise

    Charise Naked to the Cosmos

    Well, real simply, in the 25th chapter of Matthew, Jesus said that when a person fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc., they did it to him, and deserved eternal life, and when they didn't do those things, they also did it to Him, and deserved hell. He didn't even say anything about faith in that passage. The same in the 16th chapter of Luke, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. He made it clear that salvation isn't just about belief (he doesn't even talk about it in those passages) but it's also about how we treat our fellow man (or don't treat him/her). If a person couldn't lose their salvation, those passages wouldn't even make any sense.
  3. Burbot

    Burbot Dig my burdei

    To put it bluntly, I am not a Calvinist.

    Oh, and Sera, I found this one.
    James 5:19-20
    My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (NIV)

    The site i found it on suggests that the person wandering away is someone who was "saved"...

    More deeply into what I believe though, no one is "in the state of 'saved"' when they are on earth. Acctually, I find it really hard to talk about this cause I don't really care about who is "saved" and who isn't...

    Point is though, salvation is a gift by the mercy of God. It isn't won, guarenteed, to be bragged about, or even known in life...
  4. Burbot

    Burbot Dig my burdei

    Well someone opposing the "once saved, always saved" could always look at that passage from John and say that it isn't up to other men to taken someone away from the grace of God, but is dependant upon the free will of the individual :p
  5. Burbot

    Burbot Dig my burdei

    Well I guess that would depend on how you view salvation then.

    If you are a Calvinist, if you truly "saved" then you wil find yourself back into the grace of God if you believe that you are predestined to be saved.

    If you believe in faling from grace (but still from a legalistic perspctive), then the fact that you were once "saved" is generally moot but you can always turn back towards God (however one does that...whether it be through repentance and sacraments, or from prayer alone or whatever) and become "saved" again.

    Neither of these is what I believe mind you. I don't really know what salvation entails...
  6. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    What about all the neat "dark" stories of God (in which God involves you in stories in which you do not rely upon God consciously because you are trying to survive by killing demons, monsters, etc. with a +5 vorpal sword of defuzzinating :p). I mean, if you didn't "forget" you were "saved" every once in a while, you couldn't play the dark games that God makes for you.

    Of course, when it's dark, it's dark, so don't worry about missing out- God knows how to turn out your lights. Then you are like "hey, lol, ohh, now I see....".
  7. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    That had seemed to be my perspective on the issue. I always found it odd when I hear other's ask, "are you saved?" Implying it is a condition. As a child, being raised by people who believe this way (very much calvinistic in some aspects) I certainly thought of myself and those christians around me "saved" without giving much thought to the issue. However, now I find this concept of "being saved" quite interesting.

    I hear people asking "Are you saved?" just as much if not more than "Are you a christian?" Especially when adults are asking children. I guess it is a important first step to instilling the fear of god in an unsuspecting child.

    Why the common use of the word "salvation" or implying one should be "saved" when it comes to converting others to christianity?
  8. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    According to the doctrine I was tought you would still be saved, but terribly ashamed of your sins and graveling at the feet of god on judgement day.
  9. Charise

    Charise Naked to the Cosmos

    Well, if anybody read what I posted above about this, it's obvious from what Christ said about what we do to our fellow man that faith alone isn't going to save us. He wasn't talking about people being ashamed of their sins on Judgement Day but still going to heaven-he was talkng about people going to hell that didn't feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. If all people had to do was believe and then they're saved forever, those passages wouldn't make any sense at all.
  10. ssreetnulov

    ssreetnulov Member

    If you have it, you can certainly lose it.
  11. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    Saved from what? God?
  12. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    I read what you posted. Unfortunatly not everyone subscribes to your interpretation of the bible.
  13. roly

    roly Senior Member

    I wouldnt say that the bible is full of contradictions so much as those who read it.
    We read it not as it is intended and we are crap at it. We put meaning into it to suit us and dont bother researching properly...
    We read it wrong and thus comes the contradictions.
    The bible is very coherent when read properly.

    Much love,
  14. roly

    roly Senior Member

    God looks at the heart. If ur not being honest and just selfish...he'll know. Thats what makes him a fair judge. You are just being silly. lol.
  15. roly

    roly Senior Member

    coz saved it what it is.... Simple as.
    You are either saved from eternal death through Jesus Christ or u arent .... simple. AS to what makes u saved and what doesnt its accepting the fact that Jesus can give u eternal life, not death
  16. roly

    roly Senior Member

    Question: do you think that on "judgement day" there will be like a big recollection of your sins? like a screen where you see all the bad stuff you' ve done?

    I dont...surely if its been already dealt with on the cross its over?
    Romans 8 :1 : "there is no condemnation...." (look it up)

    Just a thought.
  17. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    So can someone who is "saved from eternal death through Jesus Christ" become "unsaved"? Does salvation come when somone accepts christ and converts to christianity, or does it come on judgement day when we all move into our eternal residence?
  18. Libertine

    Libertine Guru of Hedonopia

    Salvation can't be lost for the same reason magical powers can't be lost.

    Neither exist.
  19. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    You mean my powers of astral-projection don't exist??!! And all this time I thought I was working and my boss was gipping me out of my paycheck!

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