Bush vetoes anti-torture bill

Discussion in 'Politics' started by McLeodGanja, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. McLeodGanja

    McLeodGanja Banned

  2. Ozone

    Ozone Member

    Bush is evil. What else is new?
  3. acga5

    acga5 Senior Member

    whats wrong with waterboarding? prehaps if your kids were blow to bits by an insurgent you would be more inclined...doesn't hurt them in any way just gets info outa them :)
  4. txbarefooter

    txbarefooter Senior Member

    what is worrysome is that this sets a presidence, in that anyone could now use "state security" as an excuse to waterboard.

    say, China or Russia grab an American soldier and said he was a spy looking to do damage (read terrorize) to the country and used waterboarding to extract information about his intent and any coconspirators. The US won't have an international legal leg to stand on, and pitching a bitch won't do any good because it will be said that "You (USA) said waterboarding isn't torture and is a means to the end of extracting information" to shut up.

    @acga5 .. what if it were YOUR son being waterboarded ?
  5. McLeodGanja

    McLeodGanja Banned

    No but you are forgetting that america is allowed to do all this shit, nuclear weapons, genocide, just not everyone else.
  6. MaximusXXX

    MaximusXXX Senior Member

    I believe in torture, but personally I think it should only be limited to rapists.

    Political prisoners technically haven't done anything physically harmful to anyone, technically so in these cases I think torture is a no go.

    Waterboarding isn't that cruel in the first place.


    Let's just get that out of the way.

    Nazis were known to tear out fingernails......for starters
  7. McLeodGanja

    McLeodGanja Banned

    What I want to know is, how exactly do you get information out of someone by wrapping their head in cling film and pouring water over their face?
  8. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Could I get waterboarded if I was found with ten pounds of pot in

    my car trunk and the authorities wanted info about my grower?
  9. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    John McCain says that torture was quite effective on him. Apparently the VC got some really good info on better ways to shoot down American planes. Otherwise he wouldn't support torture so enthusiastically.

    Could I get waterboarded if I

    Drug suspects are currently not routinely tortured for information. Will it be standard practice in the US within a decade? I absolutely positively guarantee it. Fascist movements never stop halfway, the the rightwing extremism we're seeing today is completely beyond the control of any court of law.
  10. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Makes one wonder again just what makes a terrorist?
  11. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    McCain was never really tortured, though. He was given preferential treatment in exchage for intelligence information. The guy is no war hero. That's why he tried to suppress information being released on the POWs. He knew that if the information got out, he would be exposed for the fraud he is.
  12. wackyiraqi

    wackyiraqi Senior Member

    Probably not. I have a friend in Chicago that is a special investigator for a narcotics task force. I've heard interesting stories. :)
  13. txbarefooter

    txbarefooter Senior Member

    oh yeah, I forgot ... we, "the USA", can do what ever we want, to whom ever we want, when ever we want, but no other country can. for instance; invade another country, we can but no one else.
  14. acga5

    acga5 Senior Member

    John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile over Hanoi.[32][33][34][35] McCain fractured both arms and a leg,[36] and then nearly drowned when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[32] After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes.[37] Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.[37][38]

    Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information, beating and interrogating him.[37] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[37] and announced his capture. His status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times[39] and The Washington Post.[40]

    McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care.[32] Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[32] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[41] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week; they nursed McCain and kept him alive.[42] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[37]

    In July 1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[2] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[32] The North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[37] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[43] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[44]

    In August of 1968, a program of severe torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[37][32] McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate".[32] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[45] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[37] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[46] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[47] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions",[37] with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[48]

    McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.[37] From late 1969 on, treatment of McCain and some of the other POWs became more tolerable after disclosures to the world press of the conditions to which they were being subjected.[37] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, and later cheered the B-52-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972 as a forceful measure to force North Vietnam to terms.[37][49]

    Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecoming arrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973.[50]
  15. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Makes one wonder again just what makes a terrorist?

    Yes, but you probably would see it as I do...

    George W. Bush.

    -Goes to the complete opposite side of the planet to kill civilians in their homes in order to promote his personal religious and economic agenda? CHECK.

    -Kills without provocation? CHECK

    -Supports torture and other enormities? CHECK.

    -Has an imaginary friend in the sky that he believes is on his side? CHECK.

    -Justifies the killings of civilians if necessary to attain goals? CHECK.

    -Has stashes of chemical weapons, germ warfare agents, and threatens people with them routinely? CHECK.

    George W. Bush: Terrorist. Murderer. Enemy combatant.
  16. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    That's the "official" story behind McCain, which has been cemented by the corporate media that's adament on portraying him as a war hero. Those who served with McCain painted a far different picture of the man, and almost everything that's been said about McCain's military career has been proven to be a lie.

    McCain could have been released from the prison in 1967 when he was captured, but he refused. He knew he could use the capture and alleged "torture" to his benefit, to advance his career in politics. Again, he was given preferential treatment. He made 32 propaganda films for the Vietnamese government. McCain is no war hero, and many of his comrades consider him to be a traitor, which he is.

    I suggest you watch these videos:

    John McCain in "Missing, Presumed Dead"

    Vietnam Veterans Against McCain

    Also, don't forget to look into McCain's role in the Keating Five Scandal, which he should have went to prison for.

    See also Why McCain Should Never Be President (PDF file)

  17. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    I guess no one remembers his anti-American statements, made while in captivity, or reports by other POWs that counter the current media version.

  18. XBloodyNailPolishX

    XBloodyNailPolishX Forgetful Philosopher

    Its torture... its cruel and unusual punishment... we're supposedly better than that.
    its inhumane, and shows just what kind of animals the US government pigs are.
  19. acga5

    acga5 Senior Member

    thats just your opinion, which really counts for nothing
  20. zen_arcade

    zen_arcade Banned

    like yours does.

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