Brexit

I Didn't say that . I am quite sure I said my home town

 

VG

OH PLEASE NOT THIS AGAIN

Please read the fucking posts VG then you would have to keep repeating this crap and we would not have to keep pointing out its crap.

OK

Nobody is saying that ALL leavers are racists but I’ve not meet a racist that wasn’t a leaver.

OK

A lot of the supposed 'racism' has been manufactured by those wishing to misdirect peoples blame from problems they have caused onto easy to smear scapegoats

For example they cut the funding for the NHS then blame the worse performance on ‘foreigners’ flooding into the country and overburdening the health services.

Fear and hatred is a great way of getting people to act irrationally

 

"Regulations most of the people pushing for Brexit are right wing neoliberals that wish to get rid of regulations that stand in the way of profits but are detrimental to most people, like environmental and workers’ rights regulations. For export reasons we will need to keep and follow the regulations for products we sell to the EU." - Balbus


noun: neoliberalism

1. 
   
   
   • a modified form of liberalism tending to favour free-market capitalism.

So you needed to prefix neoliberals with ring-wing so as they arent confused with left wing neoliberals, left wingers that are all about capitalism


And even with right wing neoliberals as you say, they want to get rid of regulations because they get in the way of profits, and those regulations, I assume you mean all regulations, somehow are magically going to vaporize just because you leave a trading bloc ?????

 

Meet a lot of racists do you?

Or we just talking pretend internet make believe

 

So why mention it then if only leavers in your home town are racist, but leavers in the rest of the country are not?

 

I said Many . That doesn't apply to them all . Some as I mentioned were fearing for the jobs with the influx of Eastern Europeans being housed here. I actually live next door to a racist ( he told me he was one and his Facebook page proved this ) and he voted to leave............................

 

Poll dated 3rd sept.

The gambles Boris Johnson is taking look like good bets | YouGov

 

26% leave with no deal

6% leave with Theresa May type deal

18% with a deal with single market and customs union

33% second referendum

17% unknown

If anything this just highlights the problem with the first referendum, that others and I have explained many times

People had many different views on voting to the leave the EU (and for many it was a protest vote)

IT WAS A SPLIT VOTE.

Many on the leave side didn’t know what kind of leave they were voting for.

While ALL those that voted to remain knew they were voting to remain.

The other thing is that in the referendum even the leaver leadership ruled out a No Deal Brexit, they said time and again that would be bad and would never happen, it was always that they could get a ‘better deal’. The whole idea of a No Deal was called ‘project fear’ by the leaver leadership, no deal was something to be feared – in other words - to not be voted for.

Only later when the true complexities and pitfalls of a Brexit became clear did the simplistic No Deal idea take root.

And in conversations with people, what I’ve read and listened to since then and looking at what members of Parliament have indicated many of the people that might vote for a Theresa May deal and the majority that would for a single market and customs union deal would not vote for a No Deal (seeing it as dangerous)

I mean I’d also say probably more than 26% of those that want a second referendum would vote to revoke article 50.

*

Anyway let’s do a bit of playing around and split the Theresa May and single market and customs union groups up by a thirds (with 50/50 for don’t knows) then we get -

26% + 4% + 6% + 8% = 44%

33% + 2% + 12% + 8% = 55%

This is closer to a poll cited here by a leaver earlier in the thread which said that if the question was asked again 55% would vote to remain to 38% wanting to leave (it has been argued that in a second referendum many leaver leaning voters might not vote bring that vote down).

*

Anyway however it is looked at, the country would be still split

And that is the real tragedy of all this it has sowed the seeds of discord that will go on for a generation with each side blaming the other for any subsequent problems the country faces, because this whole Brexit rigmarole means Britain will face problems.

The rise of English nationalism will cause the rise of Scottish and Irish nationalism, our relationship with Europe is shot and our standing in the world diminished especially as I place for honest investment.

And the thing is that I get the feeling that many of that 25% or so of hard-core leavers drunk on the jingoistic rhetoric of their leaders and the rich people that own the right wing press don’t care about the problems or even look on that future with glee because it will cause pain to the remoaners.

 

Someone could have said that in 1845

 

I think you have your chronology wrong there !!!

 

Hey, you remember that time you guys had a huge famine and 2 million people decided emigrating to the US, Canada and Australia was better than emigrating to Europe

Fun times

 

VG

Again you come across as incredibly ill-informed and driven by dislike of your opponent rather than reason so that it’s all about point scoring without thought or insight.

I mean what do you mean by ‘you guys’?

You think I (and other people today) are responsible for the European potato famine?

Are you saying you think the Europe of 1845 was anything like the Europe of 2019?

Do you know anything about this subject beyond it happening in Europe?

What the fuck are you trying to say – that since a famine happened in Europe 174 years ago that is the reason why we should have Brexit in 2019?

REALLY is that your argument?

 

Your chronology is STILL wrong !!! - the Irish Potato blight which led to a huge famine didn't start until 1845, and thus emigration to the US didn't start occurring until at least 1848.

 

Something we do agree on, is that Brexit is going to exacerbate matters pertaining to Scotland and N Ireland

I would say regardless of whether you leave or stay now

 

Oh my word I am also agreeing with V G here. I think Brexit under any guise will give, certainly Scotland, the leverage for another referendum on becoming independent. .

 

VG

And what the fuck has that got to do with the potato famine and immigration to the US, Canada and Australia?

 

Good !!! - bring it on, and Northern Ireland and Wales too. Then England can get rid of the monarchy and HoL, to finally become a proper democracy with an elected second chamber and an elected President as head of state.

 

Let me see, what does the current financial inequality across the UK have to do with the financial inequality of centuries ago

Yep, thats a toughie

174 years, ok, we will go with Comrade Vlads 171 years...

171 years later, England still hogs most of the wealth, most still prefer to emmigrate to the other side of the world instead of Europe

Amusing to me

 

Although if I was a betting man, I'd put money on N Ireland before Scotland. Even if you stay in the EU, everyone is just going to think this issue will crop up 10 years later, that N Ireland parliament will plan accordingly, has too much leverage now.......

 

Slightly out-of-touch regarding Northern Ireland matey. The Northern Ireland Parliament hasn't sat in session for the past 3 years, since the first minister was caught in financial shennanigins and Sinn Fein won't support the political sharing agreement whilst she (Arlene Foster) remains in post.