Brexit

Now that our time has come to fight
Scotland must unite!
We'll make a stand on Stirling ground
To put a challenge to the crown!
We are one! We have come!
We're here to break and end the occupation!
We have our nation's fate in hand
It's time we make our final stand!

Welcome to the revolution!
Freedom must be paid with blood!

 

Yes, bring it on !!! - I'll look after the keys to his prison cell (drop them down the nearest drain !!!).

 

It just strikes me as odd that it seems Scotland wishes to be an independent state free of the UK.
Then it wants to cuddle up strapped to the EU thieving cabal in bed with them as they fuck each other up real good!
While all this is going on, they will be abiding by it's laws and rules and regulations while paying Billions of pounds for the privilege.
Meanwhile they would likely lose all the cash we give them now so as to help them survive.
This at a time when Oil Revenues are through the floor.

Shite.
This doesn't make any sense to me.
Me no understand.

Try and be independent if Scotland wants and be a free Country, and I can understand that.
Except that this is the thanks we get for subsidising them forever and a day with our money.

But stay part of a ruthless bureaucratic cabal organisation?

I repeat.
Me no understand.

So someone please explain.

Cheers!

 

What is life without freedom?

 

I agree 100% Irm.
But Scotland cannot have freedom while tied to the EU conglomerate boot strings.

Scotland has to choose.
Independence as part of the EU?
THAT is no independence and freedom to rule ones country for its people.
The EU will butcher that as it sets its sights on a Superstate in which Scotland will lose its freedom and identity.

Break free of the EU and take back control of freedom to rule itself.
Helped by it’s friends the United Kingdom.

NOT the EU Superstate Kingdom!

 

You can't form a coherent government just by quoting Braveheart.

 

I beg to differ.

 

VG

WHAT are you talking about?

Are you really saying the UK would be better off if we didn’t export anything?

That a hard Brexit will be OK because we don’t need to have cross border trade?

Where are you getting these ideas from?

Again what are you saying that we will be better off without the money coming in from exporting?

This is an old chestnut that I think has already been covered – it says businesses, UK businesses, now there are lots of UK businesses, my local corner shop is a UK business, the fish and chip shop down the road is a UK business, that shoe shop I used last Saturday is a UK business, the take away pizza place I ordered food from the other night is a UK business, that dry cleaners we used that one time when our kid was sick on the curtains is a UK business all those little shops at the mall are UK businesses. But the thing is none of them are UK exporting businesses.

It is [mainly] big companies (and big employers) that export for example the car manufactures ($55 billion exports) that as has been explained will be badly effected by any type of Brexit.

And again are you saying the UK would be better off and more prosperous if we stopped exporting cars?

And the problems and dangers of it have been explained at length in this thread it’s just that you seem to be wilfully ignore what’s been said

Again with this - it’s silly of course nobody is saying that, where have you got that from? It’s as silly as you seeming to claim the UK would be better off not exporting things.

Nobody is saying we will not be trading it’s just that any Brexit deal is going to be worse than we have now and detrimental to the UK economy, this has been set out by the UK government and industry and economic analysts.

But that is not a full trade agreement

Again what are you going on about what is a ‘heavily unionized parliament’ who is dictating to the EU?

And what are you basing this on – I mean I’ve heard this from leavers but they don’t seem to have anything that backs that view up except wishful thinking.

What are you going on about? We have frictionless borders within Europe at the moment how is putting up a hard one an improvement?

So for you Brexit is worth it because there will be a few more public sector jobs and some overtime – that’s it?

Again what are you going on about? What are you basing you views on?

 

VG

What are you on about I’m talking of the union of states in the UK do you know the full title of the right wing Tory party is the Conservatives and Unionist Party? And they have recently been in alliance with the right wing Democratic Unionist Party (DUP)?

The union I was talking about was the political union of British nations, Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland where did you get socialism from that?

Many have argued that the problems have arisen in the UK because of a rise in a right wing movement of English Nationalism that doesn’t care about the old union.

Again what are you basing that on?

Can you explain why you think that?

Why and what ‘bullshit’ are you talking about?

 

I think this is the big problem with VG he doesn’t seem to be motivated by a desire to seek out rational answers no his motivation seems to be based on an irrational dislike of ‘socialism’ that seems to be skewing his thinking and makes it seemingly impossible [for him] to understand or accept any rational points that are made that don’t fit in with his own biases.

 

VG

Well I was not sure how simplistic I’d have to be because I’m still not clear why you didn’t understand this –

"Negotiating trade deals is better form a position of power and influence which Brexit has already diminished and will do hugely if it goes through especially with a hard Brexit"

I’ll ask again - what did you find difficult to understand in that statement?

 

VG seems to hail from the Donald Trump idea of politics !!!

 

Its not difficult to understand, its the complete opposite, something someone in junior high would write

 

VG

Sorry so you did understand it and what it meant, you were just trying to evade addressing what it said?

Can you do so now?

 

VG

Oh and by the way did you understand this question - why do you think a Brexit especially a hard Brexit will be good for the UK economy?

 

They have the same problem though, no use whining about Donald or Boris if you dont have a decent leader with the main party in opposition

Labor has to get rid of Corbyn

 

Remember this was about the information coming from each side of the debate

As a remainer I’m not trying to be evasive or refusing to explain my thinking I’m very happy to answer questions and address criticisms, that is part of debate and this is a debating forum.

But the leavers seem to be the very opposite, they make up excuses why they can’t talk, they constantly evade or ignore, they out and out refuse to explain their thinking, they moan about even been asked questions and they dismiss criticisms without addressing them.

To go back to the second-hand car story again

You go to one person who has the cars current MOT and log book, they can answer all your questions about the history of the car, clearly and distinctly, they let you look at the engine and anything else you want and are happy to give you a test drive.

And then there is another seller who has none of the paperwork (can give them to you later after you hand over the money) who refuses to answer any of your questions, will not allow you to look under the bonnet or check for rust, and says he doesn’t have the keys right now so can’t give you a test drive - but who keeps telling you very loudly that if you buy it it’s going to be a WONDERFUL because it’s a GREAT car, the BEST car, a FANTASTIC car’

Honestly which car would you most likely buy?

I mean many of the leavers here are trying to convince people that Brexit - even a hard Brexit - is going to be wonderful, great and fantastic, BUT seem unable to actually explain why.

But virtually all the evidence seems to be point to the fact Brexit is not a good idea even the government’s own analysis points to it not been.

So for no gains they can rationally explain and in the face of valid arguments pointing to a Brexit causing the UK and many of its people some considerable hurt they still want Brexit – WHY?

 

The Labour Party (NOTE the 'PROPER' spelling !!!) has to do no such thing, they have elected a (competent) leader, one more committed to the ideals and principles that the Labour Party once stood for !!!

 

The shit has now hit the fan !!! - Scottish Court of Session (Scottish equivalent of the Court of Appeal) has ruled that Boris's prerogation of Parliament is unlawful !!!

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/09/...t-unlawful-scottish-court-rules/?ncid=webmail

 

So why have you got the Deputy Leader publically disagreeing with him on a second referendum. Well technically not now, as Corbyn supposedly now supports it. But it certainly doesnt look like it came from him