Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BlackBillBlake, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    OHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Ok AGAIN we had a Parliamentary vote on Brexit last time there were 8 options it was down to 4 this time and AGAIN they were all rejected.

    Two ideas are about the type of leaving two about the process of leaving.

    Customs union 273 for 276 against

    Peoples vote 280 for 292 against

    Common market 2.0 261 for 282 against

    Extend 50 and give Parliament control of process 191 for 292 against

    *

    So basically if it was cut down to just the two ‘winners’ from the choices it would actually be just on type of leaving and one process

    It would be a soft custom union type Brexit which was then put to the people to decide on that or remaining.

    But that would be rational and make sense but we seemed to have moved beyond that as a country.
     
  3. etherea

    etherea mother of the idiot children

    I'm waiting to get info on this 5 hour cabinet meeting today. I do agree that that the two "winners" from last night's vote should be the way forward by clearly that is too simple!
     
  4. lion1978

    lion1978 Member

    the motto/slogan of UK Parliament should really be s "just vote NO"

    Perhaps May should propose a "vote no to the deal" and then hope they's vote no on the proposal which would then make it pass because they voted no to vote no (LOL I've had to much coffee)
     
    Driftrue likes this.
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Lion

    Take it easy on the coffee because I’m not sure what you mean – are you saying you’d want Mays deal to be passed even though most people that have looked at it think it will be bad for the country and it was defeated by the biggest vote ever?
     
  6. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eyed salmon

    Balbus you keep saying that Leave or Remain has nothing to do with left vs right. But the left wing globalists are begging to remain, so it seems.

    Britain's knife crimes have skyrocketed. May has stabbed all her countrymen in the back.
     
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    6

    My big problem with you and certain others like you on the right is that you seem so unwilling to learn or lift even the smallest finger to do some study or research.

    You throw out simplest arguments and slogans with little understanding of their meaning because you have never really given them a thought, never questioning them.

    And when they fall after the most minimum of scrutiny you sneer or run away, but never learn from their failures.
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    6

    And as pointed out many on the right are opposed to leaving, any research of the subject would show you this.

    The great advocates of globalisation were the neoliberal free market right, and the dominant ideology on the right for the last 30 years or so has been neoliberalism. Again any research of the subject would show you this.

    I think many of the problems places like the UK and US are facing go back to neoliberal policies as i have explained to you numerous times

    Anyone that has looked into this issue, who isn’t a neoliberal, has come to the conclusion that this is in large part due to the neoliberalist policies that have been enacted in the UK over the last 30 years.

    Cuts in Social Services has resulted in problems within families been not spotted early.

    Working and welfare policies have put people under greater pressure.

    Competition based education systems have resulted with problem students been more likely to be excluded (as they bring down the schools stats) than been helped and squeezed education budgets mean schools often don’t have the resources anyway even if they wanted to help.

    Cuts in Social Services has resulted in them not having the resources to help children that have been excluded.

    Cuts in grants to community based projects mean many that would have helped have been forced to close.

    Cuts in policing budgets mean the police are overstretched and community based policing has been cut back.

    I could go on and on and on but this gives a bit of the flavour and anyway this is not the place.

    I don’t like May (she was a terrible Home Secretary) but she had an impossible task, first no deal could be better than the one we currently have, to get a deal that would give Brexit but be reasonably good for the country would have meant slipping the Conservative Party and she has had to try and work in an environment where the Brexit right and media are very happy to lie and cheat.
     
  9. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    I'm watching a live interview with mr. Speaker on dutch tv. What a fantastic fellow! At least one person in british parlement is in the right position :-D You couldn't have a better one.
     
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Bercow is one of the very few British politicians with any cudos at all remaining (sorry to use such a dirty word to some!). As speaker of the House of Commons he has done a great job - not only over brexit but also in denying Trump the opportunity to speak in Westminster. Of course to the brainwashed hard core of brexiteers he's just a dirty little traitor......

    I'd also give some points to Caroline Lucas of the Greens, and Lord Adonis, Labour Peer. There are also a few others who seem to buck the norm of putting self/career first, party second, the national interest third, such as the breakaway 'center' group of ex Lab and Tory. Chuka Umunna, Anna Soubry. Others too, but the majority simply useless self-serving idiots.

    I think the system here is being shown up for the archaic mess it really is. Yesterday they had to close the House of Commons for a day due to water pouring in through leaky pipes. One might see that as a kind of Omen. Uri Geller is claiming he did it - bent the pipes and made them leak. Whatever the case, I think reform of our whole Parliamentary system is needed.

    Anyway, at present we're waiting to see what will come of May's offer to talk with Labour. The general consensus among remain supporters seems to be that Corbyn has to make holding a second referendum a condition of any deal or co-operation.
     
  11. lion1978

    lion1978 Member

    To be honest I don't care if her bill passes or not, comming from my own narrow minded oerspective, from a larger perspective I think it would be in everybodys best interest if the bill was passed.

    And I'll go easy on the coffee next time, but you not being sure what I mean is exactly what was supposed to happen, the whole meaning of what I was saying was supposed to be confusing.

    Now I'm not British so you may all go ahead and scream "Then GTFO"..............But I won't do that.

    From an outsides view it apears that internal power battles between May and Corbyn has taken up way to much space in the brexit votes, and by that I'm trying to say that it seems like their battle for leadership has taken over and is disguised in the whole deal no deal debate, having made the whole thing murky and muddy, this view ofcourse can be that media has misrepresented what is going on if this is the case then I stand corrected.

    on a final note from my side if I reemember correctly the parliament was ellected after the stay or leave vote, and if it is so then simply by their childish behaviour of the current MP's I would not be able to vote for any current MP at the next ellection had I been british.
    -somehow along the way they've been able to make them selfs as well as the EU a laughing stock as well as an anoyancy, quite an acomplishment actually.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Lion

    You are welcome here, I was just trying to understand you point of view.

    As some here have commented the problem is that Brexit doesn’t fit in to the tradition of UK politics which is mainly left and right, Conservatives and Labour, headed at the moment by May and Corbyn.

    Because Brexit isn’t a left and right argument, there are left wingers that want to leave (Corbyn has been among them) and there are right wingers that wanted to remain (May was a remainer in the referendum campaign).

    The problem is s that what should have been a national process was taken over by a divided Tory party with May desperately trying to appease the warring factions inside the her own party (to keep it together) while cobbling together a plan out of nothing knowing full well that it could never as be as good as the deal the country already had (and which would be hated by all sides in her party).

    It is an impossible situation, we had two choices REMAIN or LEAVE but while remain was easy leave meant many things to many people, I heard several different ideas from those wanting to leave many of which were incompatible with each other (and none that was as good as the deal we already had).

    With no clear idea of what Brexit meant and with people having differing ideas of what it meant – how was it meant to be achieved?

    That is why the first year was wasted with May just repeating over and over the useless slogan “Brexit means Brexit”.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    Asmodean and BlackBillBlake like this.
  13. Mallyboppa

    Mallyboppa Nails Mc Fugger

    Watch it or Dont ! Beyond Caring What you think but She makes sense !
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  14. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Only 2 options? I'd prefer a third


    :D just kidding in good fun this time mate ;)
     
  15. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    ^ Well of course German Nazis have always been such good friends to the British people. Always had our true interests at heart. Saved us the expense of demolishing Coventry Cathedral, large sections of the East End of London. Liverpool and the rest.....
     
  16. Mallyboppa

    Mallyboppa Nails Mc Fugger

    Ha Ha what a crock of Shit !
     
  17. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    "Beyond Caring Whgat you think"

    I see ;)
     
  18. Mallyboppa

    Mallyboppa Nails Mc Fugger

    Keyboard is pissed ! ( but its the sentiment that counts )
     
  19. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    It's not about the spelling. But that you apparently do care what BBB thinks after all ;) No worries, that's actually a good thing :)
     
    BlackBillBlake likes this.
  20. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Gosh, that's put me in my place.

    Obviously I'm wrong to suspect that the German far right are anything but our sincere friends and well wishers - just like their nice Mr. Hitler was a few decades ago..
     

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