Brash's Speech

Discussion in 'New Zealand' started by Frog_On_Ice, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. Frog_On_Ice

    Frog_On_Ice Watercolor Paradise

    who saw it? who saw him on tv3 news? i think he has hit a new low solo parents should adopt their children, i mean what the hell? but the whole thing & on tv3 he could defend nothing he hadn't thought about it just said it. So far there are few kiwis left he hasn't offended, I hope though this means National won't have any luck in the election.
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Repatriated

    I really don't like what he says. Ugh.
  3. it seems, on the outside, his ideas are good - i mean, who is opposed to racial harmony, to a society where people don't bludge off the dole, but who are protected in times of need?

    but if you listen to what the Brash says...ugh. If we have racial harmony it's on his (white, rich, male) terms.
    Bludgers include solo cutting their benifit if they don't name the dad - which many have good reason to do, eg violence etc... - only harms the child.

    He's an ass. His government is fine if you are a rich, white, middle aged male, but fall outside that group and yup, you're screwed.

    lets hope the elections fly in the face of other conservative results that have been cranking lately and see labour (and hopefully the further left get more representaion)
  4. Megara

    Megara Banned

    a paternity test can be forced though, right?
  5. Taylor

    Taylor Repatriated

    it can. In New Zealand you can't get a paternity test done without the consent of the mother. However, you can get a court order to get one done but its a long expensive hassle. There was a newspaper report a couple of days ago about a firm in Australia who offer to do paternity tests for kiwi men. It can't be used as evidence in a court case but it can offer peace of mind.

    Fathers often get a raw deal from psycho mums but there are enough psycho dads to make these precautions worth while.
  6. Alltaken

    Alltaken Member

    yeah New Zealand has a few male rights issues. but they are slowly getting fixed, at a similar pace as female rights are getting fixed here i might add.

    a few issues that i know of are.

    prostate cancer being a higher killer than female related cancers, men needing to pay for the test, and it not being advertised (unlike female alternatives)

    the court system favouring the mother, and in the past being hidden from public (being dealt with slowly)

    girls being favoured in school. (big issue, and very real) girls have overcome guys in the classroom over the last number of decades. because of the distribution of negative attention vs constructive attention. (yes guys get more attention in the classroom but it is normally negative)

    however girls take 2x longer to pay off student loans. (job pay, having kids....)

    hopefully some day the issues on both sides of the coin can be brought closer together so that we have less differences between the sexes. we are slowly getting there though.

  7. yes, you can get a paternity test...but what i meant was: say you are a girl who gets pregnant to an abusive guy. If the birth of your child made you want to seek a new, non abusive life, and if doing so meant a clean break - i.e. not acknowledging the abusive ass of a father, then i think that can be a very sensible idea and one that should not result in the child being disadvantaged further.
  8. Megara

    Megara Banned

    While i think you have the noblest intentions sophie, i think that would have tragic consequences if it was allowed to be played out.

    I dont think its fair or right that a mother could decide whether the father would be suitable or not. Likewise, i doubt you think it would be fair if the father skipped town with the kid to make a clean break from an abusive mother. Neither parent can be trusted to make an impartial decision on that.

    Whether the father is an asshole or not, he is still the father and is entitled to due process and equal protection under the law.
  9. Alltaken

    Alltaken Member

    well said Megara.

    infact i saw an abusive mother the other day just up my road. shouting and screaming like a made woman, with a fiarly reasonable and calm sounding EX just telling her to calm down, and a kid who was not interested in going with the mum any time soon.

    she seemed to think she was 100% in the right too..... blaming the other dude for being a bad parent..... funny to hear, but obviously sad for the kid.

  10. ok, those are really valid points...but I think some other method of enforcing laws to do with parenting should be used. Cutting mothers benifits because they can't or wont name the father will only ultimatley hurt the baby.

    and as for being all.."meh meh lazy solo mothers, they just don't want to work" um, yeah, so i baby sat the 6 week old next door for three hours - My god, looking after kids by yourself is one of the hardest jobs you can have.
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

    atleast we dont have a monopoly on shitty politicians.

    I agree. It's amazing that some people can go to school, work, and raise a kid. I'm just trying to do one at a time [​IMG]
  12. Alltaken

    Alltaken Member

    Hey frozen there is also an economic reason for naming the kids other parent.

    Child support.

    you know that the government pays the DPB from tax dollars. yet when there is another parent, the government pays Some of it and then charges the other parent the rest.

    the country would save millions of dollars per year.

    also fathers DO need to have rights, currently its 100% the mothers right to choose anything after conception. and by hiding a kid from a father the woman has effective full control over everything.

    you have heard of the woman in the states who killed and pulled out an unborn baby to raise as her own.

    women are just as likely to F up a child by themselves, as a father is. letting one person make a single choice cannot necisarily be trusted to be a good thing for a child.

  13. ok fine,i used a bad example...lets say this girl goes on holiday to some town. while there she has a one night stand, goes back to her home town and then - shit - she finds out she'd pregnant. there is no way she can even rember what her one nighter looked like, let alone his name, so she CANT name him. Suposing she was anti abortion, and decided to keep the child, why should that kid have to be punished because the mother and father made a mistake? I just don't think that cutting down the dpb because only one parent can be named is fair to the kid. Sure the parents had one night of irresponsibilty, but it's going to be tough enough for the kid without adding to its hassles. Personally I don't mind paying a higher tax than i would under brash if things like the dpb can be left alone.

    even katherine rich has resigned the welfare portfolio because of brash's ideas about what 'welfare' is.

    also - as for who as the control after the conception - yeash it sucks that its the woman's but tough shit. If it happend to me, I would definitley consult the father and follow his wishes as much as I could - but ultimatley it has to be the woman's descion. Otherwise we end up with a society that can force abortion or births on people, and that is so awful.

    anyway, i'm not making a very good argument - i'm so tired from work, but yeah, basically i don't think you should punish the child for the parents' mistakes and i don't think you can force a woman to abort/give birth no matter how much you disagree with her decsion.
  14. Taylor

    Taylor Repatriated

    Exactly. Thats why Helen annoyed me so much when she was all "Lets get more mothers working."
    HELLO? Mothers are already working. It is NOT an easy job to be a mother, it is a full time job in the true definition of the word - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for at LEAST 18 years. What other job has such huge demands on a persons time and is so undervalued by our society?

    Being a parent = work. Its how it is.

    And on the dpb solo mother thing... you're both right, Doug and Sophie. I agree with both your points. We just need to find some sort of middle ground where those parents that should be involved in their childrens lives are and those that shouldn't be, aren't, irrespective of whether they're mothers or fathers.
  15. wiccan_witch

    wiccan_witch Senior Member

    damm right, some fat middle aged rich guys have NO idea. grrrrrrrr, it makes me so mad and dont even get me started on the fat,white,rich men trying to ban abortions..........................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
  16. Alltaken

    Alltaken Member

    hmmmm and a one night stand is a valid reason.

    sexual responsibility is taken with a pinch of salt by many people. and unfortunatly there are consequences.

    i do agree that it ultimatly effects the child, so i would propose the government then doesn't give money to the parent but rather gives the child what it needs. School books, clothing, food....

    this way mothers who ARE taking the money to buy innapropriate things, playstations, expensive clothes... (yes some money would be needed to be given but a lot less) children can now get what they need, and the system is harder to twist and benifit from.

    there are many sides to it, and i agree the honest people are gonna get shafted, and the dishonest people will abuse their children. needless to say a good parent will instill these qualities in their children despite their budget.

  17. Disarm

    Disarm Member

    I think that if it was really easy to tell between slack mothers that don't give a crap, and hard working mothers, then National would be far better in terms of policy than labour. But you just can't..

    Like what about a rape victim? What if she was raped by someone in her whanau, it's pretty harsh to declare him the father, it would totally screw over her life (more than already)... little things like that.. I don't think brash really thinks hard about the problems his policies would bring.. if it were well thought out then it might actually be a pretty good policy. I heard about a girl who 'accidentally' got pregnant at the age of 16, and had 3 MORE KIDS before the was like 25, she blamed everyone except herself for her situation. These people need a good kick up the ass and labour will never do that.

    I mean, helen clark's response is to promote childcare to put more women in the workforce..give me a break.. Id rather women raising their own children before school age than sticking them into a strangers arms..
  18. belladonna

    belladonna Member

    I am ambivalent about Helen Clark's move,on one hand,we have needed good quality,low cost childcare for decades. On the other hand,parenting IS work,& it's high time it was recognised as such.If the Govt. would do this,as well as more childcare,it would help.

    As for Brash,can't stand the man.His idiot.punitive policies (punish the poor for being poor) just show how out of touch with the day to day reality of most people he actually is.

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