My husband was openly bisexual when we met, this changed as we changed workplaces and he settled in to the hetero lifestyle. He threw out his gay porn as soon as we started our relationship, which I felt was unnecessary (I find it arousing). I asked him if he wanted to buy more and he said no, after a couple of years I realised he was viewing gay porn on the net and felt betrayed that he wasn't sharing this porn with me or felt unable to discuss it with me. We had a few 3somes with other men in our early years (together 13 years now) but never really discussed them in detail, just something we both enjoyed. I took it upon myself to order porn dvds (gay/straight/lesbian) for us, because I enjoy it but he has always been uncomfortable viewing gay porn with me so it doesn't happen. He can only cope with hiding his behaviour. I have always realised he swings more to the gay side of the spectrum, this coupled with his secrecy with his m2m feelings has made me paranoid and jealous at times. I have offered him amicable opportunities to leave over the years, but he has always insisted he enjoys having sex with me and is happy. 3 children and several infidelities later we have separated through mutual agreement but are still living together and considering an open relationship. He feels he has swung more to the gay side of the spectrum because he is not capable of controlling his urge to sleep with men, it is consuming him. He still feels sexually attracted to women, but less than before. He is very confused and I realise now that he has guilt and shame issues tied up with his m2m attractions. We love each other very much and have both found it upsetting being separated. I want him to be happy and honest with himself about what he needs and he is now free to have sex m2m and properly consider his orientation. He and I have discussed getting back together and having an open relationship in the future, but I only want that if he genuinely desires me. I don't want a closeted husband or to delay an inevitable divorce. Has anyone been consumed by same sex desire and found acting on that through open relationships has improved their hetero sex life? (I genuinely believe promiscuity is natural, monogamy not). Any other thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Hi Lin, well my wife and I are in/have been in a similar situation. We are married 20 years and she knew that I had had some m2m liasons be4 we married - tho I didn't tell her of some others. But predominantly I went with women (20 years) until we married and, apart from one woman and one man I was monogamous until about 6 years ago when I experimented more without telling her. After deciding that we loved each other and did not want to part we then experimented together with another bi-guy for about four months after which I pulled out of the threesome and we opened the marriage - my wife continuing to see the other guy. While she found that m2m sex was a big turn-on for her she has now, after a year, decided that she is not suited to being open on her side and a this point we are not sure where our marriage is going. We are currently living apart but are still primary and in daily contact - we also have two teenage children. I am finding I am enjoying experienting with m2m sex and have a greater libido than my wife, tho she enjoys sex greatly. I still feel more emotionally attracted to women than men, but enjoy sex with both, and my wife and I have always had a good and active sex life. I am more or less past the secrecy and am happy to keep her informed about most of my liasons but for us older people we shouild not underestimate the conditioning that we have grown up with - it is not always easy to shed the guilt feelings; one reason why I enjoy being and posting on here. Even our two children (14 & 16) know as a result of a text slip-up and they seem quite accepting of the fact that their father is bisexual; my daughter even laughed about it. I would also agree with now in thinking that promiscuity is natural and monogamy not, but my wife would not agree I think. She is very open-minded - her sister is gay but I cannot say that our open realtionship has improved our sex-life. For the first year after coming out to her we had a very very intense second 'honeymoon' year but this has now faded and I am not at all certain now of our future together; overall I think that she finds it simply too difficult with more than one relationship. To sum up I think that once you open up your relationship, and especially if you take in a third person, then you have opened pandora's box and change is inevitable; just depends if it can be managed to suit everyone. MMOMW (making mixed orientated marriages work) is a great online support group. Feel free to PM me if you wish, Simon :sunny:
I chopped it up to emphasize how it sounds. Use the word He its his fault, use the word I and its phrased in a way that makes you sound good, use the word We and you talk of love. Guilt and Shame issues ?? You think that happens when he's in bed with whichever guy he's having fun with at the time? Guilt and Shame issues around YOU or anyone else that is going to get all mimimimimi you shoudnt be doing that mimimimimimi Its aways the same thing, talk of love, connections, honesty, soulmates, feelings. Sitting around with some of your gal friends you may have confided in who basically are just going to nod and agree with you anyway so you dont get upset even when they are thinking pffttt yeah right. Yet seperated and headed for divorce, basically because he doesnt fuck you enough, or doesnt uncontrollably ravish you when he does. Doesnt matter how you spin it to everyone else, how often they sit and nod and agree with you to your face. Especially if there arent any money issues, thats what everyones going to think, ended over sex. And if its not about sex for YOU, then whats the problem?, sounds like you've got everything else, a great guy you love and connect with. So in the end you end up looking like the guy as it were, despite anything you try to claim out loud, ditching a partner cos you didnt get enough sex
I have never been one who tells people what they want to hear, but I don't think that honesty and diplomacy are mutually exclusive. I have found constructive criticism and trying not to make assumptions are effective tools for getting your opinions proper consideration. The anonymity of internet forums does provide opportunities for greater degrees of honesty but it also provides the opportunity to think before you speak allowing for greater diplomacy. I will clarify my previous post. My husband has told me of his guilt and shame of his m2m feelings only recently, I thought he just wanted privacy. In theory I have always thought an open relationship is appropriate, but have lacked the courage to follow through, he never told me he needed that, I wish he had. He is concerned his need to fuck other blokes labels him as gay and needs time to work through his issues on sexuality. I am well aware desire wanes in long term relationships, the fireworks of the first couple of years cannot last forever unfortunately! I just don't want to suppress his sexuality and I still want us to have great sex! For the record, I don't discuss my sex life with mates, only my partner, alog with the mad woman and the rational woman in my head, like all people it can be difficult at times to distinguish the voice of reason! Thats why I have posted here, to get some feedback on my/our thoughts, thanks.
It sounds to me like you`re trying to micromanage even his sex life away from you. Order porn for him? Watch porn together? Discuss threesomes? Seriously? And, like Vanilla said, I think you`re just patting yourself on the back about his supposed guilt. And then you turn around and say you`re jealous and paranoid about his 'secrecy.' It`s like you want credit for being uncontrolling while controlling every aspect of dude`s sexuality. And, maybe the only motivation to be uncontrolling is that you don`t want to be controlled yourself.......?
The anonymity of the internet works both ways. That comes of sounding course in written form. More diplomacy needed within a group of friends. But if it was just you and I shopping for shoes whilst having a yarn conversation may be less edited No, He spoke of his guilt and shame of his m2m feelings to YOU. Doesnt matter which guy it is, doesnt matter how long you've known him, how well you think you know him, everything is always edited to how he thinks he should act, what he thinks you want to hear, how he thinks you are going to react. You never get to see how they talk / act when there arent any girls around. It can be the most supposedly homophobic guy, around the wife always acting extra homophobic to make sure she knows, everything to emphasize errrgh I'm a man. Same guy down the pub with his mates with like a gay co-worker and no girls around and its different. More like stupid jokes, Oh well If I get drunk enough, or as long as I dont have to do anything etc. Same guy again in the lunch hour having a chat with the gay guy then usually conversation drifts to bitching about the wife. Its always about emasculation with us. As for guilt and shame, they are constantly bombarded with attempts to feel guilt and shame with sex from all the girls....all the time. He just said it that way cos he thought thats what you want to hear. The guilt is about you, keeping it from you, how you are really going to react, no having you as a part of it, maybe not wanting any girl there not just you As for guilt and shame in relation to him, wouldnt really make any sense to him. Theres no shame if no ones going to find out, and guilt after he's just blown his load, think that happens everytime with you - errr, do we have to talk, I just want to go to sleep And guilt and shame doesnt really make any sense to me, up their with the word 'betrayal' which only the chics use, just sounds like you are all trying to overstate something In the end, this guy, like the vast majority of bi guys, and some guys YOU think are gay fit into the same category - Besides as friends, not really into guys, just like playing with their things. And there are a lot more out their than you think. And you are better off with one like this, he gets that release somewhere else with ones he isnt going to leave you for. Better than having one that leaves you for a mistress, or gets her pregnant or spends a whole bunch of money on hookers.............just as long as you arent too controllng. Male and not bi or female, you arent going to know how many are out there. Just as female and not bi or male, you are not going to know how many girls out there are on the down lo, plenty of them, maybe more, guys are too frustrating. No use worrying about it all, if by the time kids have grown up and they are bored of everything, most are out there running around in secret doing god knows what
I cant agree with much of your comments Chera & VG, I think you're trying to read too much into the OP's post. I don't think she is either condeming or being too critical of her partner - just stating facts, admittedly as she sees them; I cwn identify with much of what she says, and yes sure if he has this guilt then I'm sure he's not being completely open with her but that takes time and trust - can't emphasise that trust too much. I could never believe for a long time that my wife could accept my deceit and what I was doing. She's more looking for others with similar situations - my advice to her is to go on to MMOMW - many posts like this there. Simon :sunny:
You are talking about a guy that has never been completely honest with her. What I'm about to say is going to come off mean, but theres no other way. She's not going to listen to any other guy in the same situation as her husban, as she's just going to get the same patronizing stuff her hubby gives her. And she's not going to listen to any other married guy either as they have been worked on by their wives for too long and have a certain amount of cluelessness to get roped into marriage in the first place. I didnt bother looking at MMoMW, no need, but what else is it going to be but a whole bunch of diplomacy to protect others feelings. Its just going to be the same from everyone, oh there there dear, just as long as you go along with the rest of us and pretend in public that your marriage is great , all about trust and honesty and communication we'll sit down share our feelings and talk through it, just as long as its in that pretend way Thread title ends in 'husband needing divorce'. She's frustrated as all hell, everyone feeding her a whole lot of garbage, considering an open marriage, buts thats not going to be fair, a lot easier for her hubby to get it, she's still to timid to say 'fuck me' instead of 'desires me'. How does she go out getting hers if shes still too timid to approach guys, and never really learned how to.....becuase she's been married for so long Everyone elses advice would be along the lines of stick with it and talk through it, talk talk talk, cos thats worked so well so far, and talking solves everything, just ask any politician My advice, depends on if she's bi herself. Take a break, go out slut it out, les it out, whatever it takes to get your. Use yhe same tricks as hubby, you dont have to worry what anyone else thinks if no one sees it. I cab guarantee if hubby sees you have a fling with some butch chick he'll get all intimidated and sooky Get past 60 and the guys start to keel over early anyway, so its 2 girls to each guy, and the guys left struggle to even get it up. So its just going to end up one big les fest anyway, just yiu and the girls taking the bus to bingo, then a 'tupperware' party afterwards. Everything everyone ever told you about love, marriage and sex is all horsehshit
What sort of statement is that - horseshit! You are so bitter about marriage it's not real! I don't accept that a 2-person marriage is either natural or ideal but it is what society has landed us with. Thankfully attitudes are changing and look - the OP's statement: "I genuinely believe promiscuity is natural, monogamy not." What is your problem? Simon :sunny:
Well as I said its going to sound mean. But if everyones public persona is always formed from not saying things that are going to get people upset, hurt their feelings, get them angry, damage their reputation. The way it is, not much you can do about it Buuuuut, it still means its always going to be edited, therefore you never get the complete truth. This in particular Doesnt make any sense. This is what the hubby has been doing for the last however long. Hopefully the kids dont know, or he thinks they dont know...its their parents, you dont wanna know about your parents having sex even if you do know - oooh ick. One of the reasons he sneaks around, so the kids dont know. And if he can do it why cant the wife This kind of reaction is what I'm talking about. Get angry and what happens, Ok fair enough I'll leave it, move on to the next website. How many female partners are cool enough to consider an open marriage?....how many have a choice? How many try to bring it up with their husbands only for the husbands to get angry or give this this double talk so they just clam up and take it. How many husbands are fine with an open marriage until she gets more than him then get angry and sooky. How many husbands are fine with an open marriage because they know they are going to get more than her. Its never going to be fair, its a lot scarier for them to attempt random hookups. Then on top of that you are all often reluctant to share with them and they dont understand why, they try to tell you all this, try talk to you to actually get the truth,only for hubby to get angry, not really listen and they just give up Anti-marriage? I'm not really sure what that means. I am anti this stupid public act everyone does guys going cro mag, girls going soprano anytime you say something they say is rubbish but then flip out. Communication solves everything even though you never say the truth to each other. Talk of honesty when it takes a decade for one to find out the other has been sneaking around. Trust is key when they are constantly jealous and suspicious of each others actions. As for the answer the OP is looking for, is she going to be better off divorcing him or not?, no one has the answer to that. There is only one way to find out
Marriage is irrelevant! Like a document, a ring, or saying sweet nothings in public, or a money shot in front of your parents and friends, and blowing $20,000 to the wind is going to keep anyone from doing what they wanna do... What is more relevant, is why people marry in the first place. Especially, if they have to have control over their hubby`s porn collection in order to feel safe. Or, like VG says, if they need to make believe in front of the kids, but letting hubby have a personal life feels like too much 'secrecy.'