Bill Ayers - Domestic Terrorist or American Hero?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by skip, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    With all the recent controversy regarding Barack Obama's association with former Weather Underground founder Bill Ayers, I decided to do a little research on Mr. Ayers, something the media seems reluctant to do.

    Who was and who is Mr. William Ayers now?

    If you go back to the 1960s, you will discover that Bill Ayers was one of the people who restarted the FREE SCHOOL movement, a revolutionary concept in education.
    (We have revived the Free School movement right here on HipForums!) Bill was very concerned about our education system and how it was turning out people to become corporate robots and ideal consumers.

    So Bill started the Children's Community, a Free School project in Michigan to offer an alternative to the state required public education.

    [​IMG]

    Bill Ayers at the Children's Community School in Michigan just before he went underground

    Here is an article I just posted to the Hippyland Archives about Bill Ayer's contribution to the Children's Community.
    http://www.hippy.com/php/article.php?sid=361

    So as you can see as far back as 1968, Bill Ayers was an Education activist, focused on the education of minority students. Obviously he shares this interest with Barack Obama, and that is why they know each other.

    Right after this article was published, Bill Ayers had to go underground. This was because the group he founded, the Weather Underground, had just blown themselves up in a Greenwich Village townhouse while manufacturing bombs.

    Bill himself has revealed in his autobiography,
    Fugitive Days: A Memoir published on Sept 10th, 2001 (the day before the WTC attack on 9/11), that he had indeed participated in bombing the Pentagon, the US Capitol building and NYC Police Headquarters! Yet Bill had all charges dismissed because he was under investigation by COINTELPRO, an illegal spying operation run by the US government. (Today the gov't can do exactly the same sort of spying, but it's now legal under President Bush).

    Ayers was also active in the
    Weatherman's 1969 "Days of Rage" riots in Chicago, where 300 weathermen protested the war in Vietnam via violent acts. It was only the most violent protests such as this that got media attention.

    You can find out more about Bill Ayers here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

    Bill Ayers is currently a DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR at the
    College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago! (is that where all terrorists go?)

    So my question is this: IS Bill Ayers a Domestic terrorist or an American Hero and freedom fighter?
     
  2. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    If you wonder what could be considered heroic about bombing government buildings, consider the following...

    The most radical elements during the 1960s showed the American public that the government had crossed the line during the Vietnam War. The line being the point at which Americans would no longer tolerate government sponsored VIOLENCE against human beings (wherever they lived).

    To drive that point home, these radicals used violence themselves. In other words until Americans witnessed violence in their own country, they would not understand the impact that squadrons of B-52s carpet bombing Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos had upon the innocent people in those countries.

    It was about bringing the war HOME to those who supported it.

    This was an important issue, especially for "liberals" and "hippies" to understand. Most were peace-loving, non-violent types who could not condone the violent actions of the Weathermen and others.

    But as today's new cycle proves, unless you do something so radical as bomb gov't buildings you won't get the media's attention to your cause. It was true then and it is even more so now.

    The thing that all the peaceful protests seemed to be unable to do was end the war itself. But the threat of domestic violence by those who wished to end the war really brought home the fact that Americans would no longer stand idly by while the US gov't pursued it's inhumane imperialist policies.

    And finally all the ruckus drummed up by the 60s activists is the main reason why YOU and following generations were never drafted into the armed services. Even conservatives now acknowledge that the American public won't stand for a draft for an imperialist war. That is something that these radicals from the 60s impressed upon the nation.

    And yet we still let them have their wars, just so long as WE don't have to go... What a fucking cop-out of the succeeding generations! Where are the protests? (peaceful please!)

    So in conclusion, the actions of Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground and others helped turn the tide against the war in Vietnam, helped rid the US of the draft, and probably saved thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives, American and foreign.

    Is that not the definition of a hero?

    Watch this Video Documentary on the Weather Underground!
     
  3. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Obviously using violence to protest violence (i.e. war) does not make somebody a hero. It only makes them a hypocrite. It also makes whatever message they have null and void in the eyes of most fairly rational people.

    Also, the state actually uses such violence to their benefit, as a pretext to further their police state agenda against the general population. We have seen this throughout history, though perhaps the best example would be the '99 WTO riots in Seattle, where the police bussed in the black bloc anarchists, gave them free housing during the protests, and let them wreak havoc on the streets of Seattle, attacking random people and causing all sorts of property damage. The police were initally ordered to stand down, then as things began to escalate as the night progressed, martial law was declared and the police and military were let loose, where they proceded to pepper spray and beat people indiscriminately, including the peaceful protesters. The media then used the riots to portray all the protesters, many of whom were legitimate, as being violent.

    Now as far as the Obama/Ayers connection, I believe this is just another media diversion used by those on the phony right end of the false left/right paradigm, to somehow get people to believe Obama represents the agenda of terrorists when he represents the interests of the international banking institutions and transnationals. Of course they will not attack Obama over legitimate issues, since most of those issues could just as well apply to McCain, who, like Obama, is just another hand-selected mouthpiece for the same non-governmental organizations and financial institutions, only packaged differently as to make the indoctrinated public actually believe they have a choice.
     
  4. 420UFO

    420UFO Member

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    agreed. I support peace and peaceful protests, but I'm not naive. I know sometimes you need a little ka-fuckin-boom to get attention, make a point, or destroy something that's hurting others.
     
  5. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    And in the process completely discredit yourself and hurt innocent people... kind of like the government itself.
     
  6. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Gandhi successfully colonized an independent India and Pakistan without any use of violence or physical force.

    (Although he did support the coup and over-throwing of Hitler at this time)
     
  7. dd3stp233

    dd3stp233 -=--=--=-

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    For those that don't know, the Weather Underground never killed anybody in their bombings, except in an accidental explosion that killed their some of their own members. Equating them with real terrorists is far fetched.
     
  8. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

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    Agreed. Their purpose was to disrupt bureaucratic functions in order to divert leadership away from the war. It wasn't the best way to carry out that mission, but they did cause a halt to bombing operations over Hanoi for a while when they bombed the Pentagon.

    Ayers and Obama served together in organizations that were reforming schools in Chicago 15 years AFTER we left Indochina. They weren't bombing police stations together. If you point fingers at Obama for his association with Ayers then you have to point fingers at McCain for his association with the US Navy and for dropping bombs on North Vietnamese children (which he admittedly did).

    The entire issue is rhetoric bordering on slander.
     
  9. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

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    PS- Bill Ayers is a hero for getting involved in the education of children and reforming schools that were graduating seniors who could not read. I don't care if he damaged some architecture along the way.
     
  10. 420UFO

    420UFO Member

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    Like I said... maybe that worked then, but I doubt it would work now... and I still think his followers letting police beat them was just stupidity.
     
  11. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    This is correct. They were after symbolic targets, not human beings.

    Let's also remember that it was the Weathermen (not sure if it was Bill Ayers personally), who orchestrated the escape from prison of Timothy Leary who was in jail for a long time on trumped up cannabis charges. They helped Leary leave the country with a fake passport.

    Anyone wanting to judge the weathermen must put their actions in context of what was going on at the time. How Nixon came to power, how people were taking to the streets in hundreds of thousands to protest the Vietnam War, how they were met with police violence against peaceful protests.

    At the time our gov't had no qualms against using violence against its own citizens. Witness the Kent State massacre! So gov't violence was fine, killing innocent students was FINE! But REACTING to that violence by attacking the symbols of gov't was not.
     
  12. Funkateer

    Funkateer To swing on the spiral

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    I completely agree with this brilliant statement friend :D

    I do not agree with using domestic terrorism in any situation
    It lowers you to the level of the government war pigs
    I do see why it was done however

    And as for the hand selected mouth piece
    SPOT ON!

    Its sad how many americans think that they actually have a say in the workings of our government. They made it so big and so confusing for a reason
     
  13. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Wanna see the REAL Domestic Terrorists?

    Here they are:
    [​IMG]

    You are looking at the terrorists who massacred students at Kent State University on May 4th, 1970. The students were peacefully protesting the war, when these government sponsored terrorists opened fire on them. They were ordered to do this from the highest levels of gov't.

    The idea behind this attack on students was to INSTILL FEAR in them, so they would stop protesting the war in Vietnam. Similar, but not as deadly tactics are still being used to instill fear in those who would openly protest the policies of this current gov't.

    Fear and intimidation are the tactics of terrorists, and in the 1960s and early 70s our gov't used terror tactics against its own citizens. These are the facts.

    And the fact is it came down to just a few passionate groups who saw this and fought against it.

    In my book they are heroes because the US doesn't KILL STUDENTS anymore for protests, they just beat the shit out of them, lock them up, spy on them, keep secret records of their activities, threaten and intimidate them now.
     
  14. depoisoned

    depoisoned Member

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  15. cadcruzer

    cadcruzer Sailing the 8 seas

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    Then why build a Nail Bomb (anti-personnel device) ?

    I find it hard to get past that fact.


    I voted neither ;)
     
  16. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    According to Bill Ayers, there was an argument that day and the previous one over whether to use anti-personnel bombs. He even speculates that that was the reason for the explosion in the townhouse. Someone didn't want the bomb to be used on innocent people (likely Diana Oughton).
     
  17. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    LMAO!

    Read this posting by Bill Ayers from the site mentioned above...

    Dear American:
    I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.


    I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.


    I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.


    This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.


    Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.


    Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson
     
  18. depoisoned

    depoisoned Member

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    LOL got to love that email.

    I don't think the question is why was Obama around Ayers, it is really, why does Ayers support Obama? I think there is little doubt that Ayers wants to take a crowbar to the status quo and do a bit of remodeling you could say. And Obama is his crowbar.
     
  19. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Actually I believe there's a lot more to Obama and Ayers. They have a LOT in common, too much to have just met casually. They are both focused on education of minority groups. They both live in the same area of Chicago. Both men are activists and organizers.

    It doesn't matter whether Ayers supports Obama or not. The question is whether Obama supports Ayers' educational philosophy, which apparently he does, and whether Obama would consider radical solutions to our society, along the lines Ayers did back in the 1960s.

    Since Ayers is NOT CURRENTLY bombing anything, and hasn't in like 40 years, he's obviously not a terrorist today, and so anything he and Obama are up to together shouldn't SCARE people. Instead Ayers should be UPFRONT, discussing his ideas and Obama should EMBRACE HIM publicly, if he believes in the same ideas.

    In any case this is the PERFECT time for America to RELIVE the events of the 1960s and discuss the role of government in our lives just as Ayers did then.

    Unfortunately the whole Ayers things is something the Obama campaign doesn't want to bring up and the media is not wanting to go there either.

    The plain fact that he bombed the Pentagon, Capitol and NYC police headquarters and GOT AWAY WITH IT, doesn't reflect well on the US gov't. Indeed it would also bring up the entire COINTELPRO debacle, which would then bring up GOVERNMENT DOMESTIC SPYING an issue that seems to have evaporated in this campaign...
     
  20. depoisoned

    depoisoned Member

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    Yes, interesting way to look at it. I can't see how Obama could publicly endorse Ayers though. It's turned into a lynch mob as is.

    I do agree it's time to talk again about the role of government in people's lives, and something more than just "how can I save taxes". I just don't know if that will happen.
     
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