Bible Questions? III

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by OlderWaterBrother, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    The priestly occult.
     
  2. Dejavu

    Dejavu Until the great unbanning

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    Fred seems to have dropped that particular accusation sword.

    Advice is best given and taken in the affirmative.
     
  3. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    There is a difference between grandiosity and grandeur. The belief in priestly kings is grandiose and was addressed by christ teaching. To stand in the kingdom of heaven takes your breath away with gratitude and that is grandeur.

    Where love is beheld, gratitude is the natural expression.
     
  4. S-word

    S-word Member

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    There is only one God that I recognise and to who I am obedient. And that is He who was in the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singualrity of origin and has evolved to become "Who I Am."

    He is connected to his origin by an unbroken genetic thread of life that has never been broken and will never be broken in his eternal evolution: and "I," the mind that is developing within this body that "Who I Am," has become, if I remain an obedient servant to and an extension of "Who I Am," then I, as the High point to the evolving spirit in this point in time, will remain in that throne until I can find one who is a faithful and obedient servant to "Who I will have become" in whom I will have duplicated "Who I Am," then he will inherit my throne and I, as he, who I will have become, will continue in the eternal process of evolution.
     
  5. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    I've been reading some very intereting books lately...that have put things in such a way as to finally get through to my (pitifully muddled at times) head. Waaaaaay back at the Council of Nicea there were so very many books "taken out", it is not funny - that is, if I understand everything correctly. This is not even counting the KJV - and the subtractions and addidions.

    All that being said...the word and work of Jesus still stands clear enough (to me anyway) tho' it is more difficult to follow...and really the meaning is left ambiguous at certain passages; but, NOT enough so that evil could ever be interpreted as good. A main issue-point is that if one believes (in a higher power) and tries within himself to do right, seems to me that counts for a great deal. We will supposedly be led to the right things, if one's heart is right...if that makes any sense.

    Also reading about Jesus's life is very, very interesting - from an archeological standpoint, and is not really as is it presented in the KJV - or any bible, really. After I started reading about the Roman and Jewish laws - outside the frameword of the bible, well, anyway....

    I still and yet believe in Jesus.
     
  6. S-word

    S-word Member

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    One does not have to believe that the Biblical stories are literally true, one only has to accept that those stories were recorded through the chosen scribes of the spirit of Our Lord God and Saviour, who currently dwells in his mortal temporary tent/tabernacle "mankind" the current Most High in the creation, as he awaits the completion of his new immortal Temple of Light, of which our brother Jesus was the chosen cornerstone.

    It matters not, if someone could prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was not resurrected, (Even though that would be impossible to do) because I believe that the story was placed there that we might seek out the truth that is hidden in the story of the resurrection of Jesus, the first fruits to be harvested from the body of mankind, in the creation of the new life form that comes from Mankind, "The Son of Man."
     
  7. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    What practical application does discerning this truth accord you? That is other than the opportunity to speak it.
     
  8. S-word

    S-word Member

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    [Lynnbrown; wrote].........I've been reading some very intereting books lately...that have put things in such a way as to finally get through to my (pitifully muddled at times) head. Waaaaaay back at the Council of Nicea there were so very many books "taken out", it is not funny - that is, if I understand everything correctly. This is not even counting the KJV - and the subtractions and addidions.

    First of all, you must understand how the universal church of 325 AD, was founded and from what sort of people it was founded and upon what foundation it was built: because you are not referring here to the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ, but rather, to the universal church of Constantine.

    Not only did the apostles not teach the Jesus of the universal church, neither did the teach the false doctrine of the trinity, nor the so-called unbiblical immaculate conception, of Jesus and his mother Mary.

    The universal church of King Constantine was formed from a group of quarrelling and insult hurling religious bodies, that called themselves Christians. King Constantine, finally sick to the stomach with their constant bickering, called together all the heads of those bickering bodies to the first ever “World Council of Churches” where, under the dominating presence of the non-christian and almost certainly theologically illiterate King Constantine, the universal church was established in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been established in Jerusalem.

    In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR’ and Christ Jesus ‘OUR HOPE.’” The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

    In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, “You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us.”

    Then in Galatians 1: 6; Paul says again, “I am surprised at you! In no time at all you are deserting the truth and are accepting another gospel.

    So, What was that other gospel that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

    That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

    Even in the later days of John, the false teaching that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam from which every human being who has, or ever will walk this earth, has descended, and had not come as a human being, but as a spiritual being, was already beginning to rear its ugly head, and concerning that evolving falsehood, John had this to say.

    1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

    2nd letter of John verses 7-10;.“Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

    We all know where to find the teaching of the anti-christ that Jesus was not a true human being, which has been spread ALL OVER THE WORLD.

    Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve, as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

    But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.” Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.

    Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, love to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their their false doctrines.

    Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.

    Clement was a saint in the universal church, which was established by King Constantine, from a rag-tag group of insult hurling religious bodies, who called themselves christians. Eventually, sick to the stomach with their constant quarreling and abuse toward each other, Constantine summond all the leaders of those groups to the first ever "World Council of churches," where, in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been firmly established in Jerusalem, the non-christian, and almost certainly theologically illiterate Constantine, established his universal church, which has nothing to do with the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

    Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

    "ERRONEOUS--HIGHLY SUSPECT," matey, you can say that again----and again ------- and again. But by then the falsehood was firmly established and its seeds had taken root in all the nations of the world. The Lord now has need of some good gardeners, to help root out those noxious weeds.
     
  9. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    Luke 17:34

    I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.


    How would you interpret this verse? Are there two different men in one bed or is the verse talking about our sinful nature and christ nature?
     
  10. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    There is a parallel scripture at Matthew 24:40-41, which says; "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned" and is followed by Matthew 24:42, which says; "Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming." So I would say that it is talking about two different men and their need to stay awake spiritually in order to recognize the coming of our Lord so they can survive the end of this system of things.
     
  11. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    That's the traditional interpretation.

    It's curious though that two literal men would be sleeping in one bed.

    Also it's interesting that two literal women would be grinding one handmill.

    I looked up ancient handmilling and all the evidence talks about only one woman using a handmill

    Here's some info...

    Bread was made in each home daily except on the Sabbath. A woman would have taken a measure of grain and then ground it by rubbing the grains between two portable grinding stones (Matthew 24:41). Then the flour was sifted.

    Here's a few pictures of how it was done.

    Ancient stone figurine.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

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    [​IMG]

    This is a likely a later technology, but look at how two women could work at one handmill to increase productivity.
     
  13. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    Mis- interpretations have abounded...imho...

    And yet, the main story remains eternal.
     
  14. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    I Googled ancient hand mill and found this:

    [​IMG]

    and also this picture which shows how two women, even in fairly recent times, use the mill:

    [​IMG]

    As for the "two men in one bed", there are many possible explanations. Some have even said that homosexuality is the explanation but since the context is not sexual, I would say that poverty is the most likely explanation.
     
  15. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    Haha, nice picture.

    There's one more interesting verse a couple lines later. The woman left is refered to as "dead body" not as "she". This seems to indicate that the other woman either dies immediately or that it's only one woman and her body (sinful nature) is left? It just seems like the Bible is hinting at something more than the obvious here.

    Luke 17:35

    35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e]

    37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
     
  16. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    Here is an article that you might find interesting, talking about Luke 17:20-37.

    WHILE Jesus is still in the north (either in Samaria or in Galilee), Pharisees ask him about the Kingdom’s arrival. They believe that it will come with great pomp and ceremony, but Jesus says: “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

    Jesus’ words “in your midst” have at times been translated “within you.” So some have thought that Jesus meant that the Kingdom of God reigns in the hearts of God’s servants. But, obviously, the Kingdom of God is not within the hearts of these unbelieving Pharisees to whom Jesus is speaking. Yet, it is in their midst, since the designated King of God’s Kingdom, Jesus Christ, is right among them.

    It is probably after the Pharisees leave that Jesus talks further with his disciples about the coming of the Kingdom. He has particularly in mind his future presence in Kingdom power when he warns: “People will say to you, ‘See there!’ or, ‘See here!’ Do not go out or chase after [these false Messiahs]. For even as the lightning, by its flashing, shines from one part under heaven to another part under heaven, so the Son of man will be.” Hence, just as lightning is seen over a wide area, Jesus is indicating that the evidence of his presence in Kingdom power will be clearly visible to all wishing to observe it.

    Jesus then draws comparisons with ancient events to show what the attitudes of people will be during his future presence. He explains: “Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man . . . Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. But on the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.”

    Jesus is not saying that people in Noah’s and in Lot’s day were destroyed simply because they pursued the normal activities of eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, and building. Even Noah and Lot and their families did these things. But the others went about such daily activities without paying any attention to God’s will, and it was for this reason that they were destroyed. For the same reason, people will be destroyed when Christ is revealed during the great tribulation on this system of things.

    Emphasizing the importance of responding quickly to the evidence of his future presence in Kingdom power, Jesus adds: “On that day let the person that is on the housetop but whose movable things are in the house not come down to pick these up, and the person out in the field, let him likewise not return to the things behind. Remember the wife of Lot.”

    When the evidence of Christ’s presence appears, people cannot let attachment to their material possessions hinder them from taking prompt action. On her way out of Sodom, Lot’s wife apparently looked back longingly for the things left behind, and she became a pillar of salt.

    Continuing his description of the situation that would exist during his future presence, Jesus tells his disciples: “In that night two men will be in one bed; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned. There will be two women grinding at the same mill; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned.”

    Being taken along corresponds with Noah’s entering with his family into the ark and the angels’ taking Lot and his family out of Sodom. It means salvation. On the other hand, being abandoned means suffering destruction.

    At this point, the disciples ask: “Where, Lord?”

    “Where the body is, there also the eagles will be gathered together,” Jesus answers. Those “taken along” for salvation are like farsighted eagles in that they gather together to “the body.” The body has reference to the true Christ at his invisible presence in Kingdom power and to the spiritual feast that Jehovah provides.
     
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Talking about orientation of devotion, mental, emotional, physical devotion, focus. The transient, focused in transience, remain transient. The enduring, focused on the enduring, endure.

    The truth sets us free, i.e. the correct apprehension of what is so.

    Simply animus animates animal, not the other way round.
    That is mind moves muscle, muscle does not move mind. It is not what goes into a man, but what comes out. It is not the conditions that he finds himself in but the conditions he creates for himself. It is not flesh and blood with which we contend but principalities and powers.
     
  18. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    Interesting.
     
  19. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

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    I can't but find it interesting that a LOT of scripture is completely left out regarding the Sodom/Gommarah destructions, and let us not forget Sarah (or whatever her name was)was turned into a pillar of salt because she turned and looked back from where she had come...but she had received the instructions not to look back! geez, right?

    The instructions to (Lot?) were to - eventually - find just 10 "just men"...which, he could NOT find even 10 just men. That < and more happened far before there was any fire and etc "raining down upon the ppl", causing the destructions of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    The fact that the Son of Man/judgement day could literally arrive at any point is not a new concept. Maybe I'm just missing something. :sunny:
     
  20. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm not sure why you say that you "find it interesting that a LOT of scripture is completely left out regarding the Sodom/Gommarah destructions". The story is fairly well known and can be found in the 18th and 19th chapters of Genesis.

    As for Sarah, that is Abraham’s wife and Lot's wife is unnamed in the Scriptures.
    Angels were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and per the discussion that God had with Abraham, they would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if they found ten righteous men in the midst of the city. They did not find them and thus Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.
    It was a fairly new point when Jesus was talking about it.
     

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