Beware the Fascist-Liberal Hardline

Discussion in 'Politics' started by skycanvas, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

    So, if I don't allow everything & root for anything radical or new or liberal, protest-worthy or anarchical; then I am hooted down as an old-school, racist, homophobe, conservative? —Get out of town.

    Why? Just cause you got a bug up your ass?

    I'll think for myself, thank you...

    —Keep the Free Speech Forum Free—​
     



  2. Well, duh. Of course, it's one or the other. ;)
     
  3. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    I associate fascism almost exclusively with liberalism. After all, it's liberals who champion the all-powerful state and the loss of freedoms that eventually go along with it. Probably most liberals' way of thinking is well-intended and largely altruistic, but not always, and I have encountered some liberals who I would say are outright fascist, including some I have encountered on this very website. The only time I have found conservatives to be fascist is when religion comes into play. Of course most of the people who vote Republican are not conservative, nor are those who champion the neocon agenda of perpetual war against nations that are largely defenseless against US imperialism. But there are really two TRUE ends to the left/right spectrum. At its simplest, it's a matter simply of centralized authoritarian control -- which can only result in tyranny eventually -- and decentralized, minimal government where elected officials are held accountable for their actions, and where freedom can actually flourish. It's simply impossible to have a fascist, tyrannical state when you have a minimalized, decentralized government that is kept in check by the people and held to the standards outlined in a document such as the now-extinct US Constitution.
     
  4. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

    I think that the word liberal means different things to different people. I think that there is a liberal tradition that many hippies upheld which genuinely tolerant, compassionate, and open minded.

    Many of the people who call themselves liberal today are liberal only to the extent that liberal policies serve their own interests. No sense of principles to it.

    Worse yet are the liberals who believe that anything is justified in the name of "progress". Violence, intimidation, fear, harassment, cancellation of democracy, lies, psychological warfare, censorship, really just about anything.

    I've heard liberals say straight up that the way to progress is beating the right into submission and keeping the middle in fear.

    It's just some seriously fucked-up shit.
     
  5. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

    All very concise posts & spot on without even quoting any of you in particular. I am impressed that there are a remnant here who realize that going too far left is arriving back at the right. There are dark threads that if I wander onto to make an honest comment I will get doused with flaming rhetoric or worse yet, huge reactionary images that scroll the windows composed entirely of emotion & very little individual forethought. I suppose it shows that no matter what ism, the masses think very little but are forged into these patterns & avenues of thought like a gigantic press; but limited, confined by the predictable outcomes by templates, dies, molds or patterns that are presupposed upon them. In that there are only a few possible forms of government; it must be people were meant or read to cling to these in times of need or stress or chaos. I suppose I've always been a fifth columnist believing that it doesn't have to be all this way or that, but gray areas of compromise could exist as often as there are individuals & myriad sets of circumstances. I mean, do conservatives always try to preserve things the way they are, emphasizing stability & continuity or do they come to a place where they believe we have departed & throw a coup as a throwback to some supposed purer form of stability? And are liberals always championing equality or that government is there to protect people or do they also fear the very same protective power as an equally destructive force? It's probably like the wind or a current of water; like a river of particles which continue in a timeline propelled by a force ultimately in a forward direction making an impression upon history with a massive erosive power, carving out a path, yet there are pools & jetties, waterfalls and those which are trapped by the undercurrents that take a repetitive path & some even going backward in the path around rocks & protuberances for a time that are also eventually swept away. So from this observation which we can also deduce in daily practicality, we concede that individual choice exists, but does determining of the grand force lie within the means of mankind to change it's course or is that determined by this grand mass of emotive energy? Hence, if we, the few, see this river of civilization is heading for a barren, endless desert, can a few voices persuade society to change course, or is that also nay?
     
  6. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

    I guess at times I feel like I'm a passenger on the Titanic trying to warn the captain to slow down, but there is an idiot left at the helm who tells the communications officer to turn off the telegraph, ignore the warnings of icebergs and the best I can do is hang out near a lifeboat.

    :sleeping:
     
  7. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    If you dislike Obama's Amazing policies, of course you're just a stupid moonshine drinkin' redneck. I, myself, (born in the shadow of NYC) am a racist republican redneck.

    Liberals seem to be reciting Obama's campaign slogans to keep the faith
    "War is Peace.
    Freedom is Slavery.
    Ignorance is strength."

    That was his slogans, right? oh oh no no it was FORWARD YOU LITTLE SHEEPLE
     
  8. skycanvas

    skycanvas Member

    Hee-Haw. lol. Yeah, I woke up one day & realized I wasn't really a liberal. I don't know what I am; but I know what I'm not when I see it. Especially when put into practice in 'our' government. Me & a lot of others thought Obama was the dawning of a new age & end to racism & a lot of other hopeful ideals, but he's just comes off so pitifully weak & playing to the media & all the correctness that is currently so rampant. It's like, who does he listen to —Mrs O—!? :mickey: I mean Putin was slouching in his seat because he has no respect for this guy. That's it O, ram the gay agenda up Russia's ass & cancel the summit & you'll get a bunch of hardliners back in there. Fuck Egypt & the 1.2 billion smackers we bride them with, but why would the US want that asshole Muslim Brotherhood guy back in there even if he was elected. Don't they dread Islamic extremists & Sharia law? The Egyptians certainly do. Who the fuck is minding the store. And why give fucking Pakistan money either? Dumbass Mutherfuckers spending us spiraling into debt instead of leaving countries like Syria & Iraq & Afghanistan to fight it out themselves. And maybe, hopefully without our help they will all kill each other. We spend all this money & bodies on war & still, their ideologies are archaic & they want to cover their women & take the world back to the stone age. And we've got assholes who don't know Jack squat dictating foreign policy. Hillary? Hilarious! Don't get me started...

    Hope we have a better one...
     
  9. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

    FYI, fascism is a right wing ideology. Try not to look so totally ignorant.
     
  10. Sig

    Sig Senior Member

    This is rich....
     
  11. Fairlight

    Fairlight Banned

    I think to equate fascism with liberalism is totally wrong.I think the word "liberalism" has been hijacked.Liberalism is about letting people do what they want within reason,determining their own lives and respecting others.My Grandparents were old school liberals.My Grandpa was with the Lancaster bombers fighting Hitler and my Grandma was a nurse in the war.
     
  12. oscar2u

    oscar2u Banned

    I very much agree with skycanvas, So called liberals seem to me to have this politically correct agenda that insists on being " open minded " toward people such as muslim fascists who have clearly stated they hate people such as me [ a non-muslim ] and wish to kill and destroy us and our Western civilization`s outlook on life.
    I am for reasons that defy common sense and self preservation supposed to keep an open mind to what these different crackpot clerics have to say ? No thank you. I understand very clearly they hate me and my Country [ the USA ] . We are the big satan and other crap. This same crap is being pushed on the Europeans. Wake up you idiots. These people [ Jihadi muslims ] hate you. An Atheist
     
  13. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

    So: Liberalism is a study self-refusal of making one's tradition one's own. Traditions are borrowed from the history of the experience because EITHER you found it of your involved interests, OR someone led you to be involved for involving someone else (maybe by the work you are paid for). Calling means nothing to liberalism. Fascists on the other hand never had a true calling, OR their calling was by fear tactics from the government, eh?:bobby:
     
  14. Victoria1987

    Victoria1987 Member

    We covered this in another thread of yours. Fascist doesn't mean right or left wing ideology. It means totalitarian. There can be left wing totalitarians.

    Here's Merriam-Webster's definition of fascism...

    often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2
    : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

    Notice how it doesn't mention right wing ideology there? Just severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition.

    So your definition of fascist isn't entirely correct, and neither is Skycanvas's for that matter.

    But I understand not changing your stance here. Checking facts is hard. It took me 10 whole seconds to pull up Merriam-Webster on my computer and another 10 to look up fascism. Twenty seconds of research is a lot of time that's better spent getting things wrong.
     
  15. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    Left and right are both sides of the same body. I don't see much opposition in mutual suspicion, just a lack of recognition.
     
  16. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    I agree, except that skycanvas did not define fascism as solely as being Left wing or Liberal, but only in its application along with Liberalism by Liberal hardliners.

    I doubt there are many on the Left or the Right who are true supporters of fascism, but there are hardliners at both ends of the political spectrum, and currently it would appear those (hardliners) on the Left are either greater in number or at least have greater control within our government.
     
  17. oscar2u

    oscar2u Banned

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    We have over the last 2 years enabled muslim jihadis to take over Libya and quite possibly Syria, and maybe Egypt also. The Obama administration does seem to be actively supporting in every way muslim jihadis. What the hell is going on with our government ? Has this Adiministration completely lost contact with reality ? The first and foremost responsibility of all Presidents is the defense of our people and our constitution.
    A short look back at history, the lead up to WWII, had a similar disregard to what was happening with Japan and Germany. They were on a course to World domination we failed to face up to until it was almost too late. We already had our " Pearl Harbor ". Those 9-11 attacks on our Nation. We now like then, face very dangerous and determined ENEMIES.
     
  18. Summerhill

    Summerhill Member

    I take your point & get confused by these chavelier use of words & terms too. On another thread the term communist liberals was used,completely bewilders me!

    Victoria1987
    Though I won't dispute your dictionary definition , it is literal rather than what has become common parlience,is my guess. Fascism ,as a term,has always meant right-wing totalitarianism to me. Fascism ,as part of its common definition, means movement or regeme that is backed by capitalist money & acts,ultimately,to serve a very rich few in a society.Since extreme Left wingers are unlikely to attract support of the Rich Left wing Fascism is a contradiction in terms. Both Right & Left wing extremes of the political spectrum can be described generally as totalitarian.

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    Perhaps everyones time would be much better spent focusing on the economy, jobs, and government deficit spending, but even then we're unlikely to have any effect on bringing about needed change as we seem intent on dividing over where to place blame, on the Left, the Right or some other political labels which we cannot even agree on the definitions of.

    Note: Those 3 issues have been the top issues regardless of age, gender, or party ID for the last 2 years, and among the highest for the last 12 years. Both our politicians and news media appear to give much greater coverage to the issues at the bottom of the polling list which produce the most bickering among us.
     
  20. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

    "Respecting" others huh? All I hear from Liberals is slander, misinformation and, more taxes. This is not fair on anyone. Socially, I agree with Liberals; The government shouldn't be involved in drugs, marriage or any social freedom. However, most the Liberals in the US,want big men with guns, to take away citizens guns with force- that's not right either!

    I left Liberalism for my philosophy now, because I realized; "Liberalism" just means ALOT more government. I also learned that when the Government gives you something with their Right hand, they take something away with their left hand.
     

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