Basic Premises: Finding common ground

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by know1nozme, May 25, 2004.


How do you feel the U.N. Declaration of Universal Human Rights applies to the U.S.A.?

  1. The United Stated should do everything in its power to stand by and enforce this resolution worldwid

    0 vote(s)
  2. The United Stated should do everything in its power to stand by and enforce compliance to this resol

    3 vote(s)
  3. The United States should stand by this resolution, but should not feel compelled to enforce complian

    3 vote(s)
  4. The United States should try to comply with this resolution, however it must be understood that extr

    1 vote(s)
  5. The U.N. has no authority over the United States and can take this resolution and shove it up their

    2 vote(s)
  1. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

    On December 10, 1948, the U.N. passed a resolution declaring the “equal and inalienable rights” of all members of “the human family.” That is to say that ALL PEOPLE are entitled to these rights. The United States, a permanent member of the U.N. security council, which could have vetoed the resolution, did not. Instead, the U.S. voted on behalf of the resolution and pledged to stand behind it.

    I’d like to ask everyone to look through the Declaration I’m posting below. These are statements concerning universal human rights. It should be understood that when the United States acts in violation of the principles behind these statements, they are acting in violation of the principles which are supposed to make this country great. Without adherence to these principles, we lower ourselves to the level of the “thugs” which we are supposed to be protecting people from.

    If the U.S. fails to do this, and instead, violates the resolution, does that not mean, that those responsible should be held accountable?

    Please read the document, and take careful note of it’s wording. I’m interested in what you have to say concerning the current actions being taken by the U.S. Government when viewed through the lens provided by this document.

    Adopted by UN General Assembly Resolution 217A (III)
    WHEREAS recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

    WHEREAS disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

    WHEREAS it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

    WHEREAS it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

    WHEREAS the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    WHEREAS Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

    WHEREAS a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

    Now, therefore, Proclaims
    THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.
    <See part II for outline of human rights - below>​
  2. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

    NOTE: There is something wrong with the outlining format feature - there should be 30 points with sub-points on this post. For the correct format of this outline see:
    1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.​
    2. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.​
    3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.​
    4. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.​
    5. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.​
    6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.​
    7. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of the Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.​
    8. Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.​
    9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.​
    10. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.​
      1. Everyone charged with a penal offense has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense.​
      2. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offense on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offense, under national or international law, at the time it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offense was committed.​
    11. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​

      1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.​
      2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.​

      1. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.​
      2. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.​

      1. Everyone has the right to a nationality.​
      2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.​

      1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.​
      2. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.​
      3. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.​

      1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.​
      2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.​
    12. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
    13. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression: this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

      1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
      2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

      1. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
      2. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
      3. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
    14. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co- operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

      1. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
      2. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
      3. Everyone who works has the right to just and favorable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
      4. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
    15. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

      1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
      2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

      1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
      2. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
      3. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

      1. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
      2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
    16. Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

      1. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
      2. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
      3. These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
    17. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
  3. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Yes, the U.S. has violated that resolution, but if you want to nitpick, so has every nation. Why aren't you clamoring for Kim Jong Il to be "held accountable", surely he has abused human rights far worse than the U.S. What about all the dictators in Africa and South America, they disregard that document as well, as do the theocratic governments of the Middle East.

    I'm not defending the U.S. by saying that others have done it worse, because everyone has to be hald accountable for their own actions. But you have to admit you're being a little inconsistend by saying that only the United States should pay for violating this resolution.

    Oh yeah, and I voted:

    The United States should try to comply with this resolution, however it must be understood that extreme situations may force the United States to ignore certain aspects of it. The United States should be still held accountable however, these circumstances surrounding this should be taken into account.

    And the same applies to any other nation faced with extreme circumstances.
  4. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    i think it's all beautiful and wonderful and not going to do anyone any good because no one will ever agree on the particulars of the enforcement of the thing.
  5. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    We aren't clamoring for anyone else, becuase American citizens are responsible for their country first and foremost. What right do we have to judge the actions of another country, while ignoring the actions of our own?

    Why search for scapegoats? "well we may be bad, but this country is worse..." It still doesn't excuse our actions any.
  6. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

    It may interest everyone to know that Eleanor Roosevelt was Chair of the U.N. Committee on Human Rights while this declaration was drafted, and that much of the wording if the document was under her direct authorship. As a representative of the United States was so instrumental in the creation and adoption of this declaration, I believe the U.S.A. has a greater responsibility to adhere to the principles it advocates.

    On another note, simply because others are violating the declaration and getting away with it has no bearing on whether or not the United States should also get away with it. By that logic, no one should ever be prosecuted for any crime, for surely SOMEONE has gotten away with it in the past.
  7. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    i agree with you there, there's never any point in pointing your fingers at other people to justify your own bad behavior.
  8. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Since you people very well may be illiterate, I'm going to quote myself here:

    Where did I say it was alright for the U.S.A. overlook it's own violations? I'm just saying that clamoring for a shoplifter to be hanged while a rapist is on the loose is being inconsistent.
  9. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    Ha, you are comparing the U. S. actions to those of a shoplifter?

    Is there some sort of problem with American citizens trying to have a say in the way our government runs OUR country?
  10. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Compared to the human rights violations going on in other parts of the world, America's are laughable. And who said I didn't like democracy? Of course people should have a say in the government, that's what a free country is all about.
  11. LaughinWillow

    LaughinWillow Member

    What about when the US is FINANCING the human rights violations going on in the world - specifically I'm thinking here of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, United Arab Emirates, Columbia, the Phillipines, Nigeria...

    MANY - or MOST of the nations frequently referenced as the WORST human rights violators (with the notable exceptions of North Korea, Iran, and Cuba) are funded directly by the US - and in many cases we are providing them with military support as well. In these cases, both the offenders AND the western nations who support them should be prosecuted.

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