Argument with a christian

usually arguments are along the lines of:
"if you look want to find 'god' then you will. if you didn't then you don't want to find 'god'."

basicly:
"if you don't take on my position, you aren't doing it right" (begging the question?)

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so i was in a discussion about the existence of "god" with a christian and this time the argument was a bit different.

i heard the argument:
"I can't prove that 'god' exists. you have to find that out yourself"

which i interpret as basicly:
"My religion says that the burden of proof is on you"

how would you handle this argument? what kind of fallacy is this?

 

don't bother. they're so brainwashed they don't accept fact.

 

Some people are spiritual, some aren't.

 

spirituality and religion are very different. OP is referring to an organized religion.

 

The statements the Christians made refer to enlightenment and opening the mind and heart to the holy spirit….which imo is a spiritual thing

 

enlightenment and opening the mind, yes, spiritual things.... coming from a book that spews hate? no.

 

For someone who has "Namaste" as their signature you might want to find peace with others. Spew of hate is pretty judgmental. I live by the philosophy of "live and let die" so I can't blame you for having that mentality but its also a bit aggressive and judgmental.

Not ALL Christians hate people for their lifestyles. You also may be referring to one sect of Christians, you know there are manyyy ?

 

i've got plenty of peace, thank you. i can be peaceful and not agree with homophobia.
check the bible, i'm pretty sure it says homosexuality is a sin. and that, to me, is hateful, calling anyone's love a sin.

 

Well, I used to be a christian believer to the point where I was a missionary.
Let me tell you about my experience:
I never found the god that Christians talk about no matter how deep or hard I tried to look for. But I did find that there is no god and at the same time there is a god, just like the point when you are there and you are not there. You may think that I am contradicting myself, but talking on a spiritual level. Every thing is interconnected within itself and things all around it. And to most of us it is known as the universe, the universe is God but not in the way where religions think about god. For in the universe you find everything and everything is within the universe. We are in the universe there for we are part of that God, animals are in that universe there for they are part of that god same thing goes for trees, rocks, soil, sand and anything that you can think of.
And to those religions this connection about God is so overwhelming and so big that it had to be minimized into such a little idea written into one book so that human beings would understand it, and somewhat have a touchable idea about what god is.
I mean how can God be everywhere at the same time? And that is what I am talking about. It is the pure energy that is contained within anything and everything!

this link is for the definition of Energy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

And this is a good definition of life and what we have made it into:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032553/quotes


Peace and love!

 

With regard to the OP I should reiterate because I really don't want to get into the homosexuality argument, some are open to spirituality in all the forms it exists, and some aren't. For example I can *understand* and *appreciate* other faiths for what they are while choosing to keep my own.

And any type of hate is wrong and unhealthy whether you're hating someone for being gay, or hating someone for hating your gay lifestyle.

 

As an old Irish Comedian (Dave Allen) used to say in his end tag line "May your God go with you" -A Philosophy witch has served me well in choice of Faith - why argue? when each of us as individuals have the right of/for Freedom of choice?

 

agree!

 

I find arguing to be ineffective. If they are destined to become nonbelievers, then they will slowly realize the truth through living, reading, learning, etc.

I listened an old woman give a speech, she was a holocaust survivor. She began her life devoutly religious, but after the events of WW2 became an atheist. But there are people who survive tragedies and it only strengthens their belief.

I sometimes wonder if there is some sort of religious trait that people are born with. Many people have similar experiences and end up with different views of religion.

 

Exactly.

 

i was kind of hoping for a more logical response. but you are right that arguing is probably pointless.

 

The problem is the finity of free tolerance at each other for the world we accept for it's short comings. I might seem that proving God exists this way allows for a mechanism for conscience of humanity to justify going on everyone just tolerating one another. But the world is after all as it is. It infinitely does not deserve a God for the Freedom of it's short comings. And the horrible part of that is that we solve the trust we feel for each other with the assumption of no short comings and with abuse at one another for the common wealth and love of It. Thus we invent Sin as well as misunderstanding.

Some arrogant bastard above many of us (in the customer service department of a powerful corporation for instance) ignores that. He really keeps pushing specified materialistic standards of morality at the common public. You see he is in the powerful situation to do so. We start tolerating each other again like Pavlov's dogs. Alas we deserve a God to consider again which recognizes intolerance and in spite of that infinite understanding from within.

Hey, the church already recognized or thinks it recognized such a 'God".:2thumbsup:

 

You interpret wrong. Religion isn't about proof it's about belief.

The game is rigged. But you can't loose if you don't play.

 

It depends on who started the argument and how.

They are not that different necessarily. Spirituality is a part of religion, but religion doesn't have to be a part of a person's spirituality. And just because a religion CAN BE organized (not every religion is) does not make it flawed by definition.

 

why does it matter who started the argument?

 

And how/the motive. Well, it matters because these arguments have been done to death (and a few times more). Mostly only to prove their own right. Both 'sides' can start this discussion up for no good reason at all. It's better to simply say good day then.