Are the Democrats back on track?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Speaking of which, the (Republican) Texas state board of education voted Friday to remove the former Democratic presidential nominee and secretary of state from the history curriculum, as part of an effort to "streamline" the curriculum the Dallas Morning News The former Secretary of State and woman presidential candidate who garnered more popular votes than her opponent was deemed unworthy of mention to the kiddies. Hellen Keller bit the dust as well. But the board decided to keep Moses, who may or may not have existed and certainly predated the U.S by many centuries, because of his (tenuous) influence on U.S. founding documents. Yes indeed, "looks like there's a few politicians hanging around children." I'd say the kids are safer with Alexandria than with Texas Republicans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  2. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Tulsi Gabbard on the Joe Rogan podcast
    She's a smart cookie and is hopefully the future of the Democratic party
     
  3. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    8 down--several more to go!! If the democrats are using a dirty trick---it's about damn time! Of course the repubs can't be topped in the dirty tricks department. Papers in the pumpkin patch began the modern dirty trick era, IMO. And then there was Joseph McCarthy. The Watergate. Etc.
     
  4. GuerrillaLorax

    GuerrillaLorax along the peripheries of civilization

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    "..the growth of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) in the wake of Bernie Sanders’ failed Presidential run has garnished mass attention in the press, been demonized by the Right, and also embraced by some sections of the liberal class as the new shepherds of the Democratic Party.

    Meanwhile, the DSA has continued to explode in membership, hitting over 50,000 dues paying members in recent weeks. While some DSA backed politicians have become house hold names as the DNC aligned media smells blood in the water in the lead up to the midterms, DSA chapters have also become a fixture at protests and demonstrations, from fighting against the Alt-Right to supporting strikes.

    But key questions remains, will the DSA be used, much as Bernie Sanders’ campaign was used, to activate key sections of millennials and the working poor, and prime them for elections? And moreover, when the time is right, will the DSA march them into the waiting arms of the Democratic Party machine after months of building excitement over “socialism?”

    In many ways, this process is already happening, as Democratic political hopefuls clamor for DSA backing in some cities which would mean not only an endorsement, but access to grassroots support and willing volunteers.

    And those who have been given the DSA stamp of approach have also been very clear about what form of socialism they are talking about: not a fundamental rearrangement of the relationship between human beings and the means of existence for the benefit of those who work for wages or are in misery because they do not have any, but simply a repositioning of priorities over what tax dollars are spent on. Perhaps only $500 billion on the military next year, and the library can stay open on Friday.

    “You can’t legislate a melting ice-shelf.”
    And let us say that the DSA is successful in creating a neo-social democratic current within the Democratic Party, will the granting of basic reforms such as universal health-care be able to make a dent in the crises that are on the horizon? Which include:



      • The collapse of world wide eco-systems which produce food and oxygen, the rising of sea levels and the proliferation of millions of climate refugees, and an onslaught of chaotic weather patterns brought on by resource extraction and fossil fuel consumption. Many scientists contend that unless drastic changes are made in the next 10 years, mass extinction, including our own, on a potentially global scale, may be unavoidable.
      • The continued growth of the wealth gap, homelessness, poverty, neo-colonial racial configurations, and precarity among the vast majority of the work force as automation displaces millions of workers, and the gig economy and tech giants re-define everyday life, while gentrification continues to push working people farther and farther away from where they work, and farther and farther away from a center of power that they could possibly disrupt.
      • The rise of fascist and right-wing populist currents that will present themselves as a tangible, and at times even ecological and anti-capitalist alternatives to neo-liberalism, of which the social democrats will become simply the new face of.
      • The mass proliferation of surveillance and spy technologies coupled with ever increasing militarization of the police.
      • An escalating social crisis fed by declining material conditions but also a growing dependence on technology that helps engender a fierce alienation from the rest of society coupled with a real desire by those excluded from the modern world to end their own lives and those of people around them. This will continue to manifest itself in burgeoning suicide rates, mass shootings, and an explosion of mental illness and untreated trauma.
    The point in bringing all of these examples up, is that fundamentally there is not an electoral strategy that can legislate these things away; coming close to even addressing these problems would fundamentally mean creating entirely new forms of life, ways of relating to each other, ways of sustaining ourselves, and ways in which day to day decisions are made within our lives. As our recent guest on the podcast stated during the discussion on Inhabit, “You can’t legislate a melting ice-shelf.”

    But on the other hand, others will point to the variety of programs and social struggles that DSA members have gotten involved in, many times, side by side with anarchists and autonomists. Some would argue that there are just as many people involved in DSA that are interested in direct action, community organizing, and building power from the bottom up, as there are those that want to spend most of their energy on electoral politics. Others would argue that for many young people wanting to get involved in anti-capitalist organizing, the DSA is simply the only game in town." - Elections, Power & the DSA #1: The Failure of the Left in Power
     
  5. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Are the Democrats back on track?

    I’ll say so we’re almost a lock to take the House of Representatives in November, and now even the Senate is in play.

    Trump won't be able to pass wind without Democratic approval
     
  6. NotMyRealName

    NotMyRealName Members

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  7. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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  8. NotMyRealName

    NotMyRealName Members

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    Tomato Tamhato. She votes Democrat. Label her all you like. She is on the same team. The same team who cheers resistance, at as many levels as possible as the means to topple the right.

    Its laughable you can suddenly try and separate her as a somehow non Democrat, while calling every fringe group that is anti left the same Republicans
     
  9. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Nothing in your link mentions how she votes. My guess is Democrat, but that would be an assumption. Most Democrats aren't socialists (I'm not) so to try to hold the party responsible for her actions is ludicrous. Nor can you validly conclude thatt she's part of some "deep state" conspiracy, since she's only an individual and there's no proof she was working with other government employees. As they say in the law of agency, she may have been "on a frolic of her own". Woodward's book suggests that lots of Republicans may be part of that conspiracy, if there is one. Also, I don't call every fringe group (or any fringe group) that is anti-let "Republican". Your assertions are unfounded--and laughable..
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  10. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I could just as easily dig up stories of unethical actions by people who may or may not vote Republican
     
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  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Hi 6, hear you are back posting so thought you might like to get back to this discussion you seem to have missed

    *

    This and the comment you made earlier about the military makes it clear you haven’t read that much on politics. Social policy and fiscal policy have specific meanings within political discussions.

    Yes the military is part of society, I mean anything in a society is part of that society, but in political discussion that doesn’t mean that military policy is normally thought of as a social policy.

    Now fiscal policy, is about the raising and spending of money, but the amount raised, how and what it is spent on can change according to politics, so for example the money could be spent on the military or social policy objectives.

    Your replies make it clear your right even far right thinking.

    But many of the people receiving public assistance are working?

    By the way did you even look up a definition of ‘welfare state’ before you replied? I mean a lot of the things mentioned below also come under its heading.

    But one of the hallmarks of modern welfare states is a government backed old age pension scheme – so under your policy of a ‘diminishing asset’ the older a person gets the less they get until they are cut off which basically seems like a euthanasia scheme for the less well off.

    Also many of these schemes are paid into by working people over their life so this policy of yours would be basically robbing people of the money they have paid into through tax.

    What about benefits going toward those that are mentally or physically impaired are they also to be withdrawn?

    I know the US has limited healthcare for the disadvantaged anyway but are you going to withdraw what there is?

    What you seem to be proposing is a Social Darwinist based eugenics programme?

    Honestly I don’t think you have given this much thought.


    You don’t know and can even be bothered to look it up or do any research?

    Again this indicates to me that you haven’t really given these things that much thought.

    This is usually about protecting and helping venerable children and adults in a society, for example at risk children, the disabled, and the elderly.


    Again this is a very narrow and shallow view of the issues.

    I mean come on you honestly what to bring up that vacuous Sothern and here silly victimhood AGAIN?

    This is a rant not a considered view of the issue – have you actually given this much thought or done any research on it?

    And come on man, we have been through the same crap before and it didn’t stand up then so why repeat it?



    Why are you in favour of the voucher system and how is it meant to improve the things you say are at fault with the present system?

    I mean I’ve discussed the voucher system before and it basically come across as utopian neo-liberal ideology rather than any real world solution to real problems and quickly unravelled when looked at.


    How would that work?

    The UK system is based on a direct government insurance scheme and some others have private insurance companies but they are government backed (many I believe are non-profit) and are hemmed in by laws and regulations.

    A ‘free market’ system would be one where someone would only get help if they could directly pay for it?

    The US system is expensive and has limited availability compared to the NHS, the majority of Americans would be better off with a US version of the NHS than what it has now.

    So what do you believe are the arguments for it?

    Yes you have explained as a ‘diminishing asset’ but what happens when people do get cut off in a period of low employment?
     
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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Yes, this is the puzzling one. I'd think a true free market Social Darwinist would be opposed to a system which allows people who keep losing jobs not to have an incentive to continue that pattern by giving them a substantial part of their previous salary while they make token efforts to find a new job. Find work or starve, I say, and let the rotting corpses of the unemployed serve as an incentive to society's slackers!
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  13. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    They probably will retake the House, but am doubtful that they will retake the Senate.
    I would like to see some potential presidential candidates come to the fore.
     
  14. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I agree. Sooner or later, though, given enough rope, the Republicans will hang themselves. Hopefully not the rest of us with them.
     
  15. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I agree the Senate is trending towards the republicans but the polls within the few selected states are within the margin of error – so there’s still a shot
     
  16. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    If nothing else, I really hope that Rafael Cruz loses.
     
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  17. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    track seem to be the thing no political party is sufficiently interested in; a transportation infrastructure that doesn't depend upon individuals having to indenture themselves to make personal use of it.
     
  18. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    with a LOT of help from corporate media giving very little air to any REAL alternatives.
     
  19. monkjr

    monkjr Senior Member

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    No. They’re losing, and demoralized.
     
  20. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Has 6 disappeared AGAIN?

    Oh well…to me the problem with ideas based on Social Darwinist thinking (and I include in that neoliberalism and other free market ideologies) is that they are fundamentally flawed because they have little, or no, basis in reality.

    The idea that there can be ‘natural selection’ with human societies is risible because human societies are far from natural.

    To take what you said “Find work or starve” sums it up.

    What is natural about the human concept of working for pay?

    There are those that can hunt to eat or grow their own food but since the first cites many have stopped doing that and few do it in industrial and post-industrial societies.

    You then have to ask what is natural about ‘growing’ your food or living in cities and as to industry, workshops, factories and computers, come on....

    The concept of biological entities adapting by increments to best suite their environments gets completely thrown out the window when humans so often adapt their environments to better suite themselves.

    The societies we live in are not ruled by the forces of nature, we make our own rules, we have laws, regulations, religions, ethics and social norms, things that are seen as right or wrong or good or bad with those often shaded and differentiated by degrees, we make judgments. In how our societies are governed and run there is no blind watchmaker we are the watchmakers.

    Humans in democratic countries can choose to have societies where the rotting corpses of the unemployed litter the streets or we can have ones in which people are given the help they need - there is no natural selection, we have choices.

    People that promote Social Darwinist and free market ideas that can ultimately lead to societies, where the choices for the disadvantaged are ‘work or starve’ are not being dictated to by some natural process they have no control over they are making a conscious choice to force hardship on the disadvantaged in their societies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018

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