Are the Democrats back on track?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Social Darwinism lives! We must give the destitute a means of bettering themselves by making sure that those who, as a result of accident of birth are simply unable to "better themselves", don't survive. Is that it?

    You're committing the Naturalistic Fallacy (making natural facts into "oughts": those who are naturally endowed should prosper while those who aren't should perish) Naturalistic Fallacy and also an Appeal to Extremes:Erroneously attempting to make a reasonable argument into an absurd one, by taking the argument to the extremes. Appeal to Extremes
    We presently do have a situation of extreme inequality in our society, with unfortunate consequences, and you're saying that must continue because if everyone were made "prosperously equal" in resources "through the barrel of a gun" it would be awful. Who is advocating that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Vouchers have their drawbacks.10 Reasons Why Private School Vouchers Should Be Rejected
     
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  3. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Our education system in the US is indeed fucked. And this is nothing new. I clearly remember being issued books in school that had names on the front card from a decade previous. And during this educational stagnation that surely drove the teachers to madness, came the great experiment; busing. The goal was noble enough, to drive grade improvement at previously lagging schools.

    But the implementation plan was just south of sheer stupidity. In my case it kicked in when I started 6th grade. I walked a couple of miles to the school where I attended 5th grade and got on a bus. For more than an hour I was bumped and jostled clear across town with my classmates to a predominantly black school. I learned later that an equal number of black students were bused from that district to the school in my neighborhood. Numerically the school districts saw improvement in grades at the lower performing schools, but also there was a dip at the schools that were previously higher performing. So the grades began to magically equalize.

    Since they were using the same books in both schools, the stagnant material was still an issue. So the real goal of this was never realized. Because they went in with the assumption that the white schools had better resources and up to date curricula. But that wasn't true, it was the same shit throughout the district. Also, they seemed to think that the black kids would develop this magic osmosis and automatically absorb more education by simply being next to white kids. I can tell you honestly that most of the white kids from my school were dumbasses.

    When I put my own kids into schools in New York and Atlanta I realized that little has changed. The materials are a tad more modern, but they also whitewash the dialog so that it puts you to sleep. And physical education is a joke, an excuse to squeeze more money for football, cheerleading and tennis (of all things). One of the odd things they do in Atlanta is rescue the poor performing schools by adding an IB program, STEM program or Arts program to the school and allowing anyone in the district who can demonstrate talent get in.

    Heaven forbid they just create dedicated centers for these kinds of higher learning environments. Somehow it's better to mix the high-performing nerds with the marginally-performing dumbasses and troublemakers. They keep a tight lid on disciplinary issues as well. I don't mean that they enforce them. Nope, they hide them, try to make it seem like it didn't actually happen. Always reacting after the fact, never trying to prevent problems.

    But of course, all of this is my imagination.
     
  4. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    That^^^
     
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  5. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    This has been implemented here with great success, the magnet schools in the area are some of the top performing. I plan to apply my son to an engineering IB program when he's in 2nd or 3rd grade.

    I dont see a problem with them at all, they help low income students who would otherwise be rotting away in underfunded and underperforming schools and they give everyone in the district a chance to follow a specific and interesting subject of study
     
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  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    In Oklahoma, the Republican state government lies at the root of the problem. It seems to want the schools to fail by making them the lowest of priorities while strapping the government by tax cuts to buy voters. Religious conservatives want public resources to be diverted to private religious schools via vouchers.
     
  7. Looks like Corey Booker is going to run. I hope you can do better than that ticket, Democrats, 'cause that's a loser. Jesus, Corey Booker. Why not Darryl Billingsly? Who is Darryl Billingsly? Exactly.
     
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  8. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Booker is a personality star. He LOOKS like a black success story, perhaps even more so than Obama (who was clearly spoon-fed his whole career, sheer privilege). But Booker is an actual rags to riches tale, only he's not rich yet (by Washington standards he probably qualifies for disabled parking).

    Ocasio-Cortez is more like Obama, from a privileged background, but doing a great job of faking the rags to riches angle (even though democrats don't like self-made people). While I don't see her as a 2020 candidate, it could be why the democrats allowed Trump, of all people, to win. Something shitty is headed our way, and Trump is in the perfect position to be blamed for it. It will be so bad nobody votes republican for a decade.

    Then we'll get a "wise Latina" in the white house. Like Catherine Cortez Masto!
     
  9. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    It's true. I hate self made people! People should stay on the zombie treadmill for 40--50 years and then retire to Florida and hobble around the pool.
     
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  10. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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  11. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    LOL I like you Melania, you're feisty. Rawr! :D

    And actually, I'm not on unemployment insurance anymore; they screwed me over very hard. I had to land a temp job for the time being to survive. Hopefully this will turn around soon..

    If the marketplace can provide a better alternative to gov't unemployment, then maybe I too will support it. But I'm waiting for a private sector entrepreneur to come along and share his/her ideas with me as to how they can provide a better service than the government. Until then, unemployment insurance is a good idea for the time being.

    The problem with US healthcare, is it is not following actually following the free market model. It's somewhere in Limbo where the insurance corporations of Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are reaping all the benefits, but it's not quite as chaotic as single-payer. Besides, my grandpa was a surgeon in the mid 20th century, he would provide medical services to some patients who couldn't afford it in cash, in exchange for fishing lessons. Try telling an insurance corporation that you'll pay them in fisherman lessons for your medical services, and let me know what happens.



    Why not? Don't you support it too? Am I not allowed to agree with Jokiefreak and Beavis?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I certainly do support it too, but I also support all the other safety net provisions you reject because to provide them robs the recipients of the incentive for self reliance. Shouldn't it also follow that denying unemployment benefits to a person who finds it difficult to hold a steady job would give that person extra incentive to try harder? Don't worry. You're in good company. Ayn Rand herself wasn't too proud to accept Medicare and Social Security under the name of Ann Carter after railing against "parasites", "looters", and "moochers" who take government benefits.
    Ayn Rand Was A Secret Welfare Queen - KnowledgeNuts

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-security/

    Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  13. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Its much more chaotic than single payer lol. Single payer is really simple, one payer, one negotiated rate, very little overhead and administrative costs

    I'm not a fan of what we have now either

    Sorry you got screwed over with unemployment though dude, that really sucks
     
  14. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Ever since I crossed 50 years of age, doctors have been playing games with me. I have good insurance now, but I also take reasonable care of myself. I even have a set of dental instruments for cleaning my teeth. And of course I gave up hard drugs back in 1995 after nearly a decade of speed freakin abuse (and lots of sales awards). So I have to admit I have written checks with this body that could still come due. AND, I can't explain this in detail to any of my doctors because they'd never give me another pill.

    So what I'm finding now is that my doctor has referred me to a pain clinic (old Navy injury that I'd rather the VA didn't fuck with). The pain clinic immediately hit me with a $1200 evaluation charge (insurance only paid $200 of it). This was in October of last year. Then, in January it was a new year, so they wanted a new evaluation. It would have been another $1000 down the drain. THEN my asshole GP doctor tells me that my migraines, weight issues and back pain are the result of my not sleeping well enough and orders a sleep study ($600). Naturally they say I have sleep apnea because I snore and breathe weirdly.

    I'm also in the middle of the greater Atlanta pollen festival, fall edition. It's a nightmare of congestion, sneezing and coughing fits and the droning weariness of being on antihistamines much of the time. The only place on the planet where I didn't naturally suffer allergies was the Sahara desert. A close second was Schenectady New York when it was dead winter and a foot of snow was on the ground. So GP doctor Yea Yea doesn't pay attention to me when I try to bring these rather obvious issues up. He just wants me hooked up by the nose to an air pump for a few thousand dollars. And if he's doing this shit to me, I can only imagine the rest of the people who see him. We're all geezers to a degree.

    I may take a set of ice picks to his office one afternoon and sidewall his shiny new Beamer (they love those things around here). But really, I'm getting too old for that kind of crap. Perhaps I should hire out, I'm surrounded by unemployed neighbors. So in the last year two doctors have put the squeeze on me hard. The rest were fair. My new dentist is amazing and replaced a broken crown in a week for $1200. I later got a $700 refund check because the insurance company caved.

    It's all just so crazy. And there are so many suckerfish latched on. Lampreys even. Remoras and collection agents. And that nice lady who calls to remind me I have an appointment and if I miss it, I'll have to pony up a pile of cash.

    The torture never stops.
     
  15. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Cheer up! In fifteen years Medicare will kick in, if it hasn't gone bankrupt by then and the Republicans haven't done away with it.
     
  16. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    That's OK, the democrats will just bring it back. And pay for it with baby parts!
     
  17. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Huh?
     
  18. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Recycling man!!!!!!!
     
  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Yes. The ones left over after Republican bloodsuckers have drained them of the last ounces of their precious bodily fluids.
     
  20. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Alexandria is busy.........
    Ryan Saavedra on Twitter

    Investing in the next generation is always a good plan. But setting them against a contemporary target at such a young age is not reasonable. It's too bad we can't insulate children from it. I'd be more impressed if she told school kids to study and do well in school, stay out of trouble, do something nice, etc.
     

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