Are Political Correctness and identity politics destroying America?

So true. Nothing better illustrates this than Jordan Peterson"s jihad over the issue of Canada's bill C-16 and the Ontario Human Rights Committee's ruling that refusing to refer to a person by a personal pronoun that matches their identity would probably be discrimination. Peterson protested that this would be an infringement of his free speech, as I think it was. But Peterson seems to have seriously mischaracterized the bill and went off the rails in arguing that gender non-binary people do not exist and therefore should not have their rights protected by law. Peterson said he could be prosecuted for a hate crime if he didbn't use someone's preferred pronoun in addressing them. Actually, Peterson would have had to engage in significant harassment; just misusing pronouns doesn't rise to that level. Are Jordan Peterson's Claims About Bill C-16 Correct?. Beyond that, his reasons for opposing the law include some rather extreme rhetoric:“I think (the pronoun) connected to an underground apparatus of radical left political motivations. I think uttering those words makes me a tool of those motivations. And I’m going to try and be a tool of my own motivations as clearly as I can articulate them and not the mouthpiece of some murderous ideology.” "Underground apparatus", and "murderous ideology" seem a bit hyperbolic to characterize a silly law, and suggest to me ideological extremism on Peterson's part, as well. They reflect his theory that political correctness and identity politics are literally Communist plots concocted after the original Marxism-Leninism became discredited to bring down western civilization. Apparently, the "Neo-Marxists" plotted to salvage their bankrupt ideology by making it about identity politics. Needless to say, his views aren't widely shared by most scholars of Marxism, but in Peterson's view, they're just a bunch of "Post-Modernist Marxists" themselves, so what do they know?

 

I gave three (Post #8). The one I prefer is the middle one, by Catherine R. Stimpson. Certainly, identity politics of sorts has been around forever, but it was dominant groups defining subordinate groups. Anyone with "one drop" of African blood was a "Negro" and would have to sit in the back of the bus. The man was head of the household, the woman was originally his chattel, and even later, her place was in the home with the children. And homosexuals were "sodomites"--abominations in the sight of God, violations of natural law. Identity politics began when previously subordinate, externally defined groups began to assert themselves and define themselves. Persons of African descent decided they weren't "Negroes", but should be called Blacks, then Afro-Americans, then African-Americans. Naturally, this caused a certain amount of distress by well-meaning whites, who were taught that "Negro" was the polite appellation--certainly preferable to the other "N" word--and who found it hard to keep up with the changing word preferences. The success of the Civil Rights movement induced other minorities to get into the act. Feminists decided they were not longer Mrs. or Miss, but were now to be called Ms. And then homosexuals decided they were "gay", leading some heterosexuals to lament the loss of a word they had previously used for happy occasions. These name games seem, consciously or unconsciously. to be based on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis that our perception of reality is determined by language, so that labels make a difference.

 

I hadn't heard of him, so I breezed through an article. He's defiantly a fool.

Jordan Peterson agrees with Trump that it’s a scary time for young men: ‘No doubt about that’

It is a scary time to be a young man, but not for any of the reasons he states. It's a scary time to be a young man because the jobs that non-college educated men could get and live a middle class lifestyle are steadily being automated away. The alternative, an education, is becoming more and more expensive.

Which is I think the fundamental appeal of the modern American right wing nationalism. Blame the root of this problem on immigration. After all, there are less good jobs. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain developing self driving 18-wheelers. When that fear his been installed you can start dividing people, and then blame any critique on that upon 'political correctness' and identity politics.

That said, I do believe there is some legit PC-nonsense. Let me give you an example. So societal acceptance of transgender people in the US has been growing really rapidly. It's a great thing that tolerance is slowly, gradually dragging itself along. That said, with the growth of this social acceptance, a few issues are bound to come up which are new territory and deserve to be discussed in a reasonable manner. I think the bathroom bills are nonsense, but sports is an interesting one.

A personal example: I once posed the question if it was fair for trans-women to compete in women's sports in a much more liberal community than this one. The response was pretty hostile. But the question seems legitimate, and was asked with no malice. Obvs there are physiological differences between men and women which is why we have women's sports. Not all of those differences are reversed by taking estrogen.

So I think the point where PC begins to become less helpful is when fairly new issues come into mainstream culture, and any discussion of them are automatically labeled as bigoted.

I may be rambling.

 

No they're not destroying the country. Ignorance, apathy and 'my way or the highway' attitudes are doing that just fine.

PC just gets on my nerves for reasons that are hard for me to vocalize. It's just an icky feeling I get. As far as identity politics it's kind of funny hearing people fumble around with the various racial terms when they're not sure what to call someone. They call someone 'black' and then it's like, 'Oh fuck! I was suppose to say "African-American."' How much better if we'd just call one another by our names.

 

They are attempting to break down the taboos knowing that your rights don't matter if nobody acts like they do. The courts are even compelling people to testify against themselves, because the only rights you have are the ones they tell you have. The Neo-Nazis are chipping away at taboos against racism in order to justify the mindless mob doing whatever they want. Since democracy is not in their interest, all they have to do is keep throwing all their effort into tearing apart the country.

 

I get the same ill-defined icky feeling. I think it's because it's such a slippery slope. We're fundamentally talking about altering people's attitudes. There's this pressure to be positive in general. Reminds me of that video for Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun" with all the creepy smiles on people's faces.

It isn't just right-wing nationalism. The left is fully nationalistic as well. Though I bet there would be some qualms this time if, say, another 9/11 scale terrorist attack happened under Trump. Maybe the left wouldn't fall behind just invading...anywhere...maybe... But again with the politically correct posicore thing...the left is worse than the right in this regard. Just be positive about everything. Trust your government. Everybody is basically good. *sigh* It's just not so.

The right is just so goddamned dumb. It's obvious a guy like Limbaugh just spews bullshit to manipulate a crowd, but they all think he's one of them, their buddy. Same with most of the rest.

It really is just a matter of time before another terrorist attack occurs, in which instance, as has its precedent, civil liberty goes out the window. I'm one of those conspiracy nuts, so I don't think this is likely under Trump. I think "they" realize that he wouldn't get enough support. But a Democratic president? Sure. Or even a Republican if his closet is clean enough (or not accessible enough.) We have a billionaire president who has banned journalistic integrity. We live in an oligarchy. Who's going to buy elections from now on? And what happens when the next terrorist attack occurs under them? It's truly frightening, actually. We're this close to losing it all.

 

Not all white men share in the benefits of being over-represented in dominance hierarchies. Some are left behind, and its easy for the demagogues to convince them that feminists and minorities are to blame. Some institutions like the Harvard and Michigan Law Schools recognize this and include underprivileged whites in their affirmative action programs for diversity. But affirmative action, introduced by executive orders of Kennedy and Johnson in the sixties, was a hard pill for uneducated blue collar whites to swallow. Whatever abstruse distinctions between "quotas" and "goals" federal bureaucrats put forward, it was hard for unemployed whites to see it as anything other than "reverse discrimination". I think it was necessary to overcome the disadvantages of past discrimination, but it triggered a backlash among "left behind" members of the majority--especially during periods of economic downturn.

I agree. That's the reason for the millenial male "lost boy" phenomenon that provides such a fertile recruiting ground for Richrd Spencer's and Matthew Heimbach's AltRighters and AltLite Nativist demagogues like Gavin McInnes' Proud Boys and Joey Gibson's Patriot Prayer that are providing shock troops for the pro-Trump radical right in encounters with Antifa. Interestingly, both Alt Lite groups are based in the yuppified Pacific Northwest, suggesting some possible reaction-formation going on with the scions of Generation X. The AltRighters, of course, are a white identity group, and the AltLiters are into "western chauvinism", so both are just other forms of identity politics based on the majority instead of minorities.

 

You do get that that reads like identity politics means we can call them negroes anymore, right?

 

No, it means we can't call them "Negroes" any more and be politically correct--unless "we" are black. African-Americans can call African-Americans the bad "N' word.

 

What about the correct term for the shade of black, negro?

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

First donate to the United Negro College Fund (UNCF) and we’ll let you know

 

Yeah, they really need to update that name. I understand it was set up at a time when that term was..."acceptable" but, Jesus.

That's in the same league as the United Dyke College Fund.

 

Civilization revolves around fighting over the meaning of words, because its literally the only way they can organize in vast numbers. Hence, the reason Ludwig Wittgenstein's linguistic analysis was and still is so controversial, because it implied they were all spouting complete gibberish. Thankfully, a trillion dollars was invested in AI in the last year or so alone, because the idea these idiots are going to save the planet from themselves is a joke. Assuming I can prove that 42 is as good an explanation as any other according to modern science, it will mean even the supreme court will have to either admit they reject the physical evidence or admit they are full of shit.

Academics have no clue what's coming.

 

I shall defer to your judgement on the political correctness side of the thread title as I cant really be bothered.

But on this identity politics side, in terms of race. Diversity ends up meaning a whole lot more, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 "breeds" ....sixteenths running around....meh, well whattyagonnado?

 

Some people take it too far. Just like there are right wing extremists, there are left wing extremists who say crazy shit like "You should refer to everyone as them until they tell you their gender" like I'm part of the LGBT community, but no. I'll call it as I see it, and if you correct me, I'll use your preferred pronoun from then on.

The problem is that Trump is creating such a divide that he makes Republicans think all Democrats are insane and vice versa. I'm even guilty of being overly wary of Republicans.

The problem isn't that people aren't politically correct, they're mistaking political correctness for common decency, and they want an excuse not to be decent to other human beings.

 

there are only two genders, either you got girl parts or boy parts.....

just tell it like you feel it , its the only real way. if you are offended, don't look at it.

 

There are people born with both sex organs.

 

Political correctness is about not being an asshole, imho..

 

Never heard of it, is that like the NAACP?

 

Very often telling it like you feel it has zero regard for objective reality.