Anti-spanking

sorry, i thought this was funny.

Disciplina, disciplinae F usually means military training. As we all know, the roman army was absolutely brutal. I think its safe to say that the discipline of the roman army required tough love from time to time.

 

You just explained your theory
You said they would fear punishment, "I don't want hit, if I do something wrong I'll be hit"
You didn't explain mine

 

i actually resent the comment that misbehaved kids mean poor parenting, as i pointed out my daughter Raven listens well, and very rare(like once a year) do i resort to time outs and spankings with her(and she has a learning disablityand it dosent make her difficult).

my Son though i said on the other hand is extremly difficult. hes very self willed, it is a gift i know, he is afrid of nothing, and likes to try new things all the time. on one hand i cherish this but on the other had its so exhausting and frustrating.

i do not think im "lazy" because i have resorted to spanking in the past. it is more that i tried all options that I COULD THINK of and i was at the end of my rope.

i do have a desire to stop spanking though for the fact that i know it makes him think he can hit. so two wrongs dont make a right. Also i was physically abused as a child. i mean abused!!!, beat with sticks, hair pulled, beatings with the belt. watching my father throw all my toys in the middle of the room and stepping all over them to break then, then telling me to clean it up within 15 mins or he would beat me. I was not given good tools on parenting, and no maunal comes with their birth.


I know my children do not fear me like i did my father, but at times i feel my rage rise with my son, so i never want to reach my fathers stage. so i think its best that i avoid all physical discipline.

Anyways im doing some web serachs on how to survive the difficult child.

 

The way I deal is. If he wants to bite it means he probably needs to bite...so I give him something he CAN bite instead of yelling at him or sa=ying no I say if you want to bit you can bit your pillow or whatever...if you want to hit you can hit this ball or this pillow. Usualy it works. Take him outside a lot.

 

good idea!

im just going to try my best to work with him, all i can hope is that this faze leaves soon(it started at 2 and now he is 3 1/2)

 

taking away a child's toys is probaly worse than hitting them. Children build lots of imagination by playing in their early stages. Imagination helps with creativity and all that. My life would be completely pointless without my extreme imagination and my creativity.

 

Where did I say anything about hitting a child that young? If you read my earlier posts you would have noticed I did state that you can't hit really young children.

 

I backed mine up with a reason, care to do the same?

Fuck him, actual experience is better than some damn professional opinion

 

:& oops, sorry it was late and I was watching the tennis!!
Just see myself and my friends dealing with similar issues at the moment I suppose and really feel that those that are doing it or have done it are far more able to give good helpful feedback on ways to deal with this issue than people who are not parents themselves.
Can't work out how to add extra quotes so I am just going to cut and past the rest of this....

not all kids are the same. some of you are just blessed with good kids.
I definitely do see some of my freinds kids that are so chilled and "good" and there are times I wonder why I have such a naughty little munchkin on my hands, I have to say though that there are times when I find their kids a little bit timid/unadventurous/lacking in personality so really despite the extra times of tension i think I would rather my kid to give me a good run for my money than to be a perfect angel all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephaniesomewhere
mmm....yes...I see how hitting works as a punishment....too true, what do you guys do when the kid is too young to speak and is hitting or biting?

Now, hitting that young of kids is wrong.
mmm...I said this because I think that hitting starts at the age where parents find they can't necessarily talk and rationalise with their children and are looking for some way that they can deal with teaching their kids to not repeat certain behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
nothing on earth is more precious than a well behaved child, and I have great respect for parents who have nice kids


So children are less precious if they misbehave a little?


"dont be a jerk dude
all children misbehave a little
a child who thinks its fun to torture animals because his parents neglected him is not a precious sight, no, its a tragedy."

What is acceptable behaviour for a child? Certainly have to agree that torturing animals is not on the list but that goes for any human, and there are laws rather than parents to deal with that one. How about on the train, if your child runs round and talks to people and plays is that acceptable or not, or today when we were getting chips at the beach and they are running round squealing with excitement. One set of nanas thought this was lovely and cute and another set were giving us death stares...seems to me that what is acceptable is different for loads of people and therefore when you are in public places what you have deemed as a well behaved child might not necessarily be someone else idea of one...rather difficult.

I really don't think that youth violence and family problems are a result of non-violent discipline. I think it has more to do with kids being in daycare until 5 or 6 every evening and parents really not paying any attention to their children at all. These kids don't know what boundaries are.
Not fair to those of us who use daycare. My daycare lady is awesome, she has four kids with her each day and they are as good as gold for her without the need for her to resort to any form of physical punishment. I think it would be fair to say that even at a young age kids are far more likely to be good for other people than they will be for their own parents!! Peer influence and stuff like that seem to operate really early on! They certainly know what her boundaries are and I honestly have to say that it is the mums I see whose kids have no form of daycare whatsoever are the ones dealing with a lot of the problems at the moment (eg. biting other children, hitting and pinching other kids). Don't really want to get into a pro or anti daycare argument but it is not really fair to throw that in as whether your kids go to daycare or not does not seem to relate to whether you hit your kids.

taking away a child's toys is probaly worse than hitting them. Children build lots of imagination by playing in their early stages. Imagination helps with creativity and all that. My life would be completely pointless without my extreme imagination and my creativity.

no
taking away there toys is way better than spanking
Personally if the problem is centered around the toys then I can see the point in removing the problem, a common occurance when there is a "mine" fight occuring, however sometimes if it has nothing to do with toys and so I do have a problem with bringng everything back to material goods. Time out deals with something that is not so material and possession orientated and so I suppose I sorta like it for that. After watching my child get more fun out of the packaging than the actual toy, or have the time of their life without any toys running round a farm for a week (even though toys were there and they had the choice) then I really don't think that toys and imagination are at all related and that toys might even inhibit the imagination of children.

ok...nuff said for now, hope I was clearer!!!

 

Watching tennis, hee hee. I wasn't sure if you were watching TV, or distracted by kids or what. LOL. Thanks for clarifying.

I think Mike is right, NATURAL CONSEQUENCES. If the toy is causing the problem, remove the toy. We have toys in the attic (OK NO JOKES) because Sage won't pick them up, or uses them improperly (like throws them) ect. She KNOWS if the toys aren't taken care of they go into the attic until a time when she can care for them (from a day to a couple of weeks, depending on the offense, at no time does she have NO toys, just the ones she has the issue with.) That is a natural consequence. In the real world, if you fuck up, things are taken from you, for the most part (I hope) people don't hit you (unless of course they were hit as children.....)

Here, for the Latin root from the Random House Webster's (yes, there are Christian references here, but Jesus didn't HIT his disciples, he TAUGHT them)

dis·ci·ple (di s#ÆpÃl), n., v., -pled, -pling.
–n.
1. Relig.
a. one of the 12 personal followers of Christ.
b. one of the 70 followers sent forth by Christ. Luke 10:1.
c. any other professed follower of Christ in His lifetime.
2. any follower of Christ.
3. (cap.) a member of the Disciples of Christ.
4. a person who is a pupil or an adherent of the doctrines of another; follower: a disciple of Freud.
–v.t.
5. Archaic. to convert into a disciple.
6. Obs. to teach; train.
—Syn.4. See pupil 1.

Although in Modern times we equate Discipline with hurt and harm, it is NOT the original meaning of the word. It means to TEACH. And you teach little to people who are afraid of you. Except to NOT act the behavior in front of the person capable of harming you.

also:
teach (t"ch), v., taught, teach·ing,

n.

–v.t.

1. to impart knowledge of or skill in; give instruction in: She teaches mathematics.

2. to impart knowledge or skill to; give instruction to: He teaches a large class.

–v.i.

3. to impart knowledge or skill; give instruction.

–n.

4. Informal. teacher.

[bef. 900; ME techen, OE t%can; akin to TOKEN]

—Syn. 1 –3. coach. 2, 3. inform, enlighten, discipline, drill, school, indoctrinate. TEACH, INSTRUCT, TUTOR, TRAIN, EDUCATE share the meaning of imparting information, understanding, or skill. TEACH is the broadest and most general of these terms and can refer to almost any practice that causes others to develop skill or knowledge: to teach children to write; to teach marksmanship to soldiers; to teach tricks to a dog. INSTRUCT almost always implies a systematic, structured method of teaching: to instruct paramedics in techniques of cardiopulmonary resuscitation. TUTOR refers to the giving of usually private instruction or coaching in a particular subject or skill: to tutor a child in (a foreign language, algebra, history, or the like). TRAIN lays stress on the development of desired behaviors through practice, discipline, or the use of rewards or punishments: to train a child to be polite; to train recruits in military skills; to train a dog to heel. EDUCATE, with a root sense of "to lead forth from," refers to the imparting of a specific body of knowledge, esp. one that equips a person to practice a profession: to educate a person for a high-school diploma; to educate someone for the law.

 

Duck, here, read this again. Ignore the first line (it seems to really hit a sore spot with you, and it is now not the point I am talking about) This is DATA attesting to the harm hitting children causes. I can get MORE beleive me. Can you get good data that supports that hitting is beneficial, from a qualified source?


Here:

http://hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=879426&postcount=27 Again, my point here is not the first line in the post, it is the DATA presented, which you conveniently ignored. Along with the fact that YOU admitted you can control the kids in your Bible Class without hitting them, you can do it! Why resort to more damaging discilpine measures for your OWN children.

 

Discipline comes from Disciplina, not from disciple.

Here is the quote from Cassels Latin-English Dictionary.

Disciplina, Ae F., instruction, teaching; training, education; ESPECIALLY military training. Transf., results of training, discipline, ordered way of life; that which is taught, learning, body of knowledge, science; a rhetorical or philosophical school or system.

You are imparting your belief that teaching required no physical force to be used. That is impossible to prove. We can of course make conjectures. What we call corporal punishment has been a way of life since man started and it wasnt until recently that we started moving away from it. I think it is fairly safe to say that if teachers needed to employ physical punishment, they wouldnt have hestitated to use it.

Does this mean we should still resort to physical punishment? Well, thats another thing.

Every kid is different and its unfair to parents to call them lazy because their kids dont understand the severity of what they did when you say "billy, its not ok to smother and kill angie under a pillow." Is it the worst thing in the world if that requires a swat on the ass? Hardly.

There is a point where it becomes abuse, who can conclusively draw that line? I dont know. In my opinion, its not alright to hit your kid because he doesnt eat all his peas. If he does something supremely stupid that could hurt or endanger someone else, i dont agree that an open hand slap is abuse and will hurt the kid. I dont think i could ever hit my kid. I think it is a bit too self righteous on the part of some people here who criticize those who slap their kids when they are extremely bad.

 

I too have had to use daycare when I was a single parent. There is a difference between having to use daycare, and not spending any time with the kids. Letting them watch tv all day, not playing with them, etc. These parents just don't want to deal with the responsibility.

 

I read it and I disagree with it. Abuse can cause mental problems, spanking does not.
The point of the church nursery post was that kids respond better to being hit, than being talked to. Re-read that post

 

Duck. Grow up. Get a family of your own or a bit more knowledge and experience with little humans and then come back and respond. Your posts are little more then a teenager with a little rebelion still left in him. You can't see past your own bubble of truth.

 

I find it strange that you say that because I am always told that I'm really mature for my age (when it comes to serious things) and that I am really good at putting my self in someone else's mindset.
WTF does rebellion have to do with this?

 

So who's feeding this family if both parents are home 24/7? And for how many years are this family doing this? And what is the child going to do once they enter the real world (not sure what age you mean here but whenever you think they don't need both parents about) and they don't have two adults with nothing better to do, how are they going to learn to monitor their own behaviour if there are two adults there to monitor it for them all the time? It's easy for me to get tired if I don't go to bed early cause i was watching the stoopid tennis however I really have to say that I don't find looking after my daughter on my own something that is tiring, it is great when I do have extra hands around but you know sometimes the conflict about parenting styles can be more hassle than when you are on your own!!
Also sometimes, being made to play Lego for the fifty millionth time really is not that much fun for me, that doesn't make me a bad parent, just an adult!! Kids actually can play on their own sometimes and can be better off for it, all that attention I find can make them a bit self centred and narky otherwise.

 

I work out of my home, and with more opportunities in the ever-growing telecommunication field, it's becoming more and more possible for kids to have parents at home most of the time. If I had a kid someday (like in fifteen or twenty YEARS), I'd continue working out of my home.
I agree kids need to learn to play alone though. However, my mom was a stay at home mom, and I learned the skill. She wasn't a "playful" mom once I was much older than two, and that was okay.

 

How do/did you make money?

 

must be the female in me but colouring in never gets boring!!! Building things and smashing them down though....oh well!!

Not sure if cooking and cleaning really qualify as selfish...probaly sitting having a cup of tea does but everyone needs a little quiet time!

Not everyone has the opportunity or the desire to stay at home all the time with their children, this isn't selfish but rather what makes the world an interesting place full of different people doing different things. To say that these parents resort to hitting their children because they are not there all the time and that because they do not sacrifice everything for their child they are selfish and therefore become lazy is far too broad a generalisation and a bit dismissive of the majority of people who do go out to work or study and manage just fine without belting their kids. Good on you if staying home is what you want to do and you manage to achieve that, however it's not really fair to label those who choose different paths as selfish because it doesn't allow for the fact that we all have different perspectives on what it takes to help your child to become a well rounded person.
(except for too much ice cream...I am sure we can all agree that too much ice cream maketh a well rounded person!!! )